Ex-Italian President: Intel Agencies Know 9/11 An Inside Job

[butchersapron]

L&L, why not fuck off eh? You're ruining something beautiful here.

 

[Lock&Light]

L&L, why not fuck off eh? You're ruining something beautiful here.

Go fuck yourself, Butchers.

I've always wanted to say that but you have only now given me a good enough excuse.

 

[editor]

Oh hang on, it was BK who Jazzz incited sue t---- to write letters to that needed a legal intervention isn't it? Creepy?

Could you stop mentioning her real name please?

I really could do without the hassle of Jazzz writing to her and it all kicking off again.

 

[editor]

I don't think you have a fucking clue about the Sue T---- story, and if there's one thing about it I'd hope the moderators here would agree with me on, it's that you shouldn't be dragging it up from your position of third-hand gossip.

For fuck's sake. What are you - of all people - doing posting up her real name?

Jeez...

 

[butchersapron]

Could you stop mentioning her real name please?

I really could do without the hassle of Jazzz writing to her and it all kicking off again.

Yeah, sure, i can do that - you starting to remember now jazzz?

 

[editor]

That's the kind of thing an unrepentant rapist might say.

Good grief. That's a totally unacceptable comment.

 

[Jazzz]

Could you stop mentioning her real name please?

I really could do without the hassle of Jazzz writing to her and it all kicking off again.

I can too. I think butchersapron should shut up entirely.

Anyway I don't know what vibe is in the air tonight but I've had quite enough of for it today. I suggest others take a break also.

 

[Lock&Light]

Good grief. That's a totally unacceptable comment.

Have you read what it was a response to?

 

[butchersapron]

I can too. I think butchersapron should shut up entirely.

I didn't think cover-ups were your game jazzz?

 

[8den]

I can too. I think butchersapron should shut up entirely.

Anyway I don't know what vibe is in the air tonight but I've had quite enough of for it today. I suggest others take a break also.

Jazzz I was wondering when you were going to respond to post 283 of mine, a complete rebuttal of your claims in post 281.

Or are you going to keep up your impression of Greecian Urn.

 

[Jazzz]

I didn't think cover-ups were your game jazzz?

I have nothing to 'cover-up'.

I am suggesting that you stop your shit-stirring.

 

[butchersapron]

Suggest away.

 

[butchersapron]

This might go right to the top. I'm meddling in things etc

 

[Jazzz]

This might go right to the top. I'm meddling in things etc

Right, well I invite you to come out with grand insinuation, whatever it may be - I really have no idea. Out with it man, or shut up. I recommend the latter.

 

[8den]

Out with it man, or shut up. I recommend the latter.

Oh Irony thy name is Jazzz. Still waiting for that response old bean.

 

[Grandma Death]

DrRingDing banned permanently, persistent general abuse.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Originally Posted by butchersapron
Oh hang on, it was BK who Jazzz incited sue t----n to write letters to that needed a legal intervention isn't it? Creepy?

Erm, I have never had a legal letter from anyone, ever, though bizarrely ''dandelion'' aka sue thingy turned up on a local newspaper message board commenting following the jailing of a serial harasser claiming a) that I was a u75 mod
b) that she had sent legal letters to me
c) that I had persecuted her.This was just strange. I never commented on her Stockwell story other than to privately reply to a PM expressing general support for trauma sufferers. Thinking back I seemed to have upset her by not replying to further PMs demanding that I publicly comment positively on her story but as I had a few concerns about her story - TIR is absolutely not a service offered by Victim Support, as she claimed, for example - I said nothing, in order not to stir things/embarrass her.

This is all well off topic now. Re the OP the claim made was

Former Italian President and the man who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio Francesco Cossiga has gone public on 9/11, telling Italy's most respected newspaper that the attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad and that this was common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies.

I said my Italian was bad but that didn't seem to be the whole story ( and that there was no mention of it in the MSM)

My very rough interpretation of what he is saying is something like; "The atmosphere around Palazzo Chigi, nerve center of Italian intelligence..." is that the tape is not authentic, and this is bolstered by the fact that the sense in the "ambienti democratici d'America e d'Europa" (democratic atmosphere of America and Europe) is that 9/11 was a CIA/MOSSAD job. He goes out of his way to say that this is definitely the case with the Italian left.

That's not quite the same as what the conspiraloons are saying, but if anyone can do a better translation it might help. It looks like he is having a go at Berlisconi and the febrile atmosphere in which conspiracy theories thrive. But my Italian is very poor.

At which point the banned OP waded in with more personal insults whilst admitting tacitly he had read only the conspiraloon site header and not translated the article nor looked at the context ( it was about Berlisconi's media empire).

Now saying ''intelligence gossip is that 9/11 was carried out by Mossad/CIA
as part of the Zionist world's plans...'' or similar isn't the same as
citing sources (or even mentioning which countries intelligence services said it. It's just gossip and conjecture, isn't it?

 

[Badger Kitten]

A point then backed up by another poster

My Italian isn't particularly good, but nobody else has ventured a translation of the Corriere Della Serra article, so here goes:

"From impressions around Palazzo Chigi, nerve centre of direction of the Italian intelligence, it seems that the authenticity of the video is not validated by the fact that Osama Bin Laden in it “confesses” to the attack of the 11 September, while all the democratic agencies of America and Europe, in line with those of the Italian Centrosinistra, know by now well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realised by the American CIA and Mossad with the aid of the Zionist world in order to blame Arabic Countries and to induce the western powers to get involved in Iraq and in Afghanistan."


Note he seems to base his opinion on "impressions" he got from "around" the Italian Intelligence community, so he's not offering any solid evidence to support what he says.

If that helps.....

 

[editor]

Now saying ''intelligence gossip is that 9/11 was carried out by Mossad/CIA
as part of the Zionist world's plans...'' or similar isn't the same as
citing sources (or even mentioning which countries intelligence services said it. It's just gossip and conjecture, isn't it?

That's all Jazzz ever has. Well, that and the bonkers fantasy stuff he lifts off loon sites.

 

[butchersapron]

Erm, I have never had a legal letter from anyone, ever, though bizarrely ''dandelion'' aka sue thingy turned up on a local newspaper message board commenting following the jailing of a serial harasser claiming a) that I was a u75 mod
b) that she had sent legal letters to me
c) that I had persecuted her.This was just strange. I never commented on her Stockwell story other than to privately reply to a PM expressing general support for trauma sufferers. Thinking back I seemed to have upset her by not replying to further PMs demanding that I publicly comment positively on her story but as I had a few concerns about her story - TIR is absolutely not a service offered by Victim Support, as she claimed, for example - I said nothing, in order not to stir things/embarrass her.

This is all well off topic now.

Apols if i got it little mixed up, the whole sorry tale is on this thread from about page 8 (max posts setting) onwards (yes, i appreciate that this is very OT, but i need to back up last nights posts, i'll happily leave it there though)

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=143765&page=8

 

[Badger Kitten]

I vaguely remember that thread with Prole pushing her conspiraloon website, was rapunzel/sue thingy/dandelion it too? I thought she was on another thread about stockwell...I can read the whole thread you linked but it is 27 pages long and its a bit depressing.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Oh I have found Jazzz going on about it on p12

 

[Badger Kitten]

and now I have found the bit where she sent me a weird email saying she was sending copies of all our correspondence to lawyers. There was no ''correspondence'' save me replying to a PM which she sent to me by following me over to another board and getting my email off there ( !!). I never heard from any lawyers. I replied politely to one PM from her and did not want to be drawn into it which I said at the time.

I repeat, I was nice to the woman, never challenged her, did not especially want to get into conversation with her, but never blew her cover when she changed boards, and was pissed off to get the franky wierd email about lawyers - and her saying she was sending over ''copies of all our correspndence.'' As if I ever wanted to correspond with her! She was the one sending me PMs! I don't flipping well know her, have not met her, and my opinions about the veracity or otherwise of her story I shall not reveal to you or anyone else since to do so would involve releasing details that are genuinely personal for her and for me, and should not be shared, and in any case it is nobody's business. I resent parallels being drawn with her and me, and this whole thing is distasteful in the extreme.

And wildly off topic

 

[editor]

and now I have found the bit where she sent me a weird email saying she was sending copies of all our correspondence to lawyers.

From the (many) harassing letters she sent me, it looked like just every page on the entire site was pending an immediate despatch to her "lawyers." After a while, I just ignored her and the threatened legal onslaught failed to materialise.

However, it's not really fair to discuss this issue further, even if I have removed all references to the person's name.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Yes fair enough and it has bobbins to do with the thread anyway.

 

[EddyBlack]

1. A former head of state. Not plural. Not more than one.
2. It can only be considered with some seriousness when some credible evidence is produced, unless you want to blindly accept a dislodged politician's words, of course. The 79 year old Cossiga hasn't been a head of state for 15 years, btw.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Cossiga

1. Hugo Chavez said that also a while back. So thats two at least.
2. However, without citing some evidence, neither statement is particularly important.

So I agree with the majority who say ‘so what?’ I was of course interested to read the article, and I appreciated the translations for allowing a proper informed discussion. Albeit one that has been disrupted often enough.

Going back to the full translation in post 220, the most interesting claim:

‘…while all the democratic inner circles of America and Europe, starting with those on the Italian Centre-Left, now know well that the disastrous attack was planned and carried out by the American CIA and Mossad with the help of the zionist world to put the Arabic countries under accusation and to induce the Western powers to intervene both in Iraq and in Afghanistan.’

Interesting that he says this, being a former head of state, but it is very unspecific and offers no proof to back up his claim.

Augie March: I think the fact that he mentions the ‘Zionist world’ is a little odd. Although I take it to mean the Zionist element of Israeli politics, allied for example to the Neo-Cons in their support of Israeli and American agression. The comment is unspecific like the rest of what he says and it is not backed up. He has just condensed the 911 conspiracy theory, which is probably all that he is repeating. He doesn’t offer anything other than ‘I believe the 911 conspiracy theory.’ I think that is where the credibility problems comes in.

Jazz: Regarding your claim in 281 and 8den’s argument in 283, any response?

I recommend that you have a good look at these two websites. A lot of the claims of the ‘911 truthers' can be shown to be false.
911 Myths
Debunking 911


I have not found any evidence of an inside job, have you?

I still think there is a possibility that the attacks where allowed to happen at some point in the chain of command. I have still not got round to getting of copy of Kyser Soze’s book recommendation though (Bob woodward) but I will order it.

It is clear that something was missed after former CIA director George Tenet’s claims.
Two Months Before 911 an urgent warning to Rice.
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/30/AR2006093000282.html

It seems clear that the warnings to Rice where of the gravest and most urgent kind, But where not acted upon.

It is laughable therefore that the head of 911 Commission was Philip Zelikow, somebody who had in the past co-authored a book with rice.

Old news perhaps, but I think this is an important point. Some articles about George Tenet and this controversy are linked to on this page:
The Silence of George Tenet
www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex/Documents/WATTenetsilence.htm

There are lots of stories about intelligence failiures on there, other than the above notorious example. I’m still looking through it myself.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Nobody in who's been related to bourgeois politics, security services etc is reliable.

It just so happens that in Italy things are a bit more explicit and polarised. Here the general consensus is that MI5/6 are trustworthy.

Only if by "here" you mean Planet Zod.

 

[editor]

1. Hugo Chavez said that also a while back. So thats two at least.

No, he didn't actually. He said - after watching some video theorising about invisible explosives - that “The hypothesis is not absurd ... that those towers could have been dynamited.”

Of course, he also has absolutely no proof, no qualifications and no evidence to support his personal opinion in this matter and some might suggest he has the odd motivation or two to have a pop at the US govt.

And there's no shortage of suitably qualified structural engineers who would question his claim that “A building never collapses like that, unless it’s with an implosion.”

Chavez did not specifically accuse the U.S. government of having a hand in the Sept. 11 attacks, but rather suggested that theories of U.S. involvement bear examination
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13401534/

Incidentally, this is interesting:
9/11: Chavez financed Al Qaeda, details of $1M donation emerge
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/814934/posts

*note: I am not endorsing the accuracy of the link or the website, but am just posting it up for discussion as it seems relevent. I haven't got time to check the details right now, so it could all be bollocks.

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

Incidentally, this is interesting:
9/11: Chavez financed Al Qaeda, details of $1M donation emerge
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/814934/posts

*note: I am not endorsing the accuracy of the link or the website, but am just posting it up for discussion as it seems relevent. I haven't got time to check the details right now, so it could all be bollocks.

 

[editor]

Cat got your tongue, chortle boy?