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9/11 media happenings

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Jazzz said:
maybe I'll comment on that article everyone keeps waving around. Thing is, I've rarely encountered anyone bothering to address Steve Jones' paper, except by the kind of attack you make now.
You only read what you want to see. You don't bother reading replies, you don't bother learning when people point out you're talking shite and you'll never accept you're wrong until people slam your face into facts that show you talking utter shite, time and time again.

If you haven't encountered the people who demolish Jone's paper in a polite and sucinct manner it's your fault.
 
editor said:
So in the face of universal disinterest from actual, real, named experts who have singularly failed to rally around the unqualified, University-shunned barking theories of Jones, you actually think that people are going to swallow this line?
Well not twerps like you. Scientists will already know that peer-reviewers remain anonymous. :rolleyes:
 
Jazzz said:
Well not twerps like you. Scientists will already know that peer-reviewers remain anonymous.
Proper scientists don't get their papers condemned by their own universities.

But back to Protec's document. Could you point out the errors contained therein please?
 
Oh and the source of the peer review?
The paper has undergone significant modifications following an additional set of peer reviews organized by Journal of 9/11 Studies Editor Kevin Ryan.
What sort of stupidity makes you think this "peer review" is of any worth whatsoever?

Editors:

Steven E. Jones, Ph.D.
Physicist and Archaeometrist
HardEvidence@gmail.com

Kevin Ryan
Former Site Manager for Environmental Health Laboratories, a division of Underwriters Laboratories
kncryan@msn.com
 
Jazzz said:
Scientists will already know that peer-reviewers remain anonymous. :rolleyes:
Stupid Jazzz in 'got his facts wrong yet again' shocka!!

Traditionally reviewers would remain anonymous to the authors, but this is slowly changing. In some academic fields most journals now offer the reviewer the option of remaining anonymous or not, or a referee may opt to sign a review, thereby relinquishing anonymity. Published papers sometimes contain, in the acknowledgements section, thanks to anonymous or named referees who helped improve the paper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_review
 
Bob_the_lost said:
Oh and the source of the peer review?

What sort of stupidity makes you think this "peer review" is of any worth whatsoever?
Good point. What's Kevin Ryan's qualifications please Jazzz?
 
editor said:
Good point. What's Kevin Ryan's qualifications please Jazzz?
He's probably a rocket scientist, he may have seen one once after all.

(On a more serrious note he worked for a company that had at least something to do with fire testing buildings. It is not clear that he has any qualification in the process itself as he was in charge of Health and saftey (or something similar) when he was fired.)
 
editor said:
But back to Protec's document. Could you point out the errors contained therein please?
Let's get something straight - you're not claiming this thing is peer-reviewed?
 
The paper has undergone significant modifications following an additional set of peer reviews organized by Journal of 9/11 Studies Editor Kevin Ryan.
In otherwords it was full of shit. :D
 
Jazzz said:
Let's get something straight - you're not claiming this thing is peer-reviewed?
Can't you read? :confused:

I'm simply asking you to point out the errors in their expert analysis. They do, after all, know far, far more about demolition than woefully unqualified amateurs like Jones.

Now that I've answered your question clearly, promptly and unequivocally, perhaps you could answer mine: what's Kevin Ryan's qualifications please Jazzz?
 
ok, so you accept this thing is not peer-reviewed in the slightest. Thought we should get that straight.

Just seems strange for you to worship it so much when you normally bash on about the necessity for peer-review, innit.
 
Public service announcement

If you are reading this then you've stumbled into a deeply twisted world. There are a few pointers you should take note of:

1) Jazzz cannot be trusted to get his facts or sources right
2) Jazzz will not read your posts, your links or anything else that implies he's wrong
3) Jazzz will not do what he says he will (ie reply to your posts)

Remember these three things and your discussion with a brick wall will be much more productive.

This message was brought to you by Bob_the_lost - The man who kicked Jazzz's arse so often Jazzz won't talk to him anymore.
 
MikeMcc said:
But in the years since 9/11, AFAIK, not one demolition expert or structural engineer has piped up to dispute what happened. That's not the way it goes when somebody makes a cock-up in that way. Just look at the South Korean cloning scandal or the cold-fusion saga for examples of that.

The 'cold fusion saga' is a good example of something - probably not quite what you have in mind, though. ;)

http://newenergytimes.com/Reports/HistoricalAnalysisSummaryCharts.htm#mit

In 1991, Eugene Mallove who was the chief science writer with the MIT News office, said that he believes the negative report issued by MIT's Plasma Fusion Center in 1989, which was highly influential in the controversy, was fraudulent because "data was shifted"[56] without explanation, and as a consequence, this action obscured a possible positive excess heat result at MIT. In protest of MIT's failure to discuss and acknowledge the significance of this data shift, he resigned from his post of chief science writer at the MIT News office on June 7, 1991. He maintained that the data shift was biased to both support the conventional belief in the nonexistence of the cold fusion effect as well as to protect the financial interests of the plasma fusion center's research in hot fusion.[57]

Also in 1991, Nobel Laureate Julian Schwinger said that he had experienced "the pressure for conformity in editor's rejection of submitted papers, based on venomous criticism of anonymous reviewers. The replacement of impartial reviewing by censorship will be the death of science".[58] He resigned as Member and Fellow of the American Physical Society, in protest of its peer review practice on cold fusion.

In 1992, the Wilson group from General Electric challenged the Fleischmann-Pons 1990 paper in the Journal of Electroanalytical Chemistry.[59] The Wilson group asserted that the claims of excess heat had been overstated, but they were unable to "prove that no excess heat" was generated. Wilson concluded that the Fleischmann and Pons cell generated approximately 40% excess heat and amounted to 736 mW, more than ten times larger than the error levels associated with the data.

Despite the apparent confirmation by Wilson, Fleischmann and Pons responded to the Wilson critique and published a rebuttal, also in the same issue of Journal of Electroanalytical Chemistry. [60] To this day, Fleischmann and Pons' seminal paper has never been refuted in the scientific literature. [61]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion

With regard to your comment that 'not one demolitions expert' has disputed the circumstances of the towers collapse, perhaps you've forgotten the words of Van Romero? (former director of the Energetic Materials Research and Testing Center at Tech, which studies explosive materials and the effects of explosions on buildings, aircraft and other structures).

http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/retractions/romero.html

Here's his resume, incase you were wondering: http://infohost.nmt.edu/~red/van.html
 
Backatcha Bandit said:
With regard to your comment that 'not one demolitions expert' has disputed the circumstances of the towers collapse, perhaps you've forgotten the words of Van Romero? (former director of the Energetic Materials Research and Testing Center at Tech, which studies explosive materials and the effects of explosions on buildings, aircraft and other structures).

http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/retractions/romero.html

Here's his resume, incase you were wondering: http://infohost.nmt.edu/~red/van.html
This is painfully stupid conspiraloonery and you've been well and truly duped.
Demolition expert Romero regrets that his comments to the Albuquerque Journal became fodder for conspiracy theorists. "I was misquoted in saying that I thought it was explosives that brought down the building," he tells PM. "I only said that that's what it looked like."

Romero, who agrees with the scientific conclusion that fire triggered the collapses, demanded a retraction from the Journal. It was printed Sept. 22, 2001. "I felt like my scientific reputation was on the line."

But emperors-clothes.com saw something else: "The paymaster of Romero's research institute is the Pentagon. Directly or indirectly, pressure was brought to bear, forcing Romero to retract his original statement."

Romero responds: "Conspiracy theorists came out saying that the government got to me. That is the farthest thing from the truth. This has been an albatross around my neck for three years."

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=4
Pwned!
 
Jazzz said:
ok, so you accept this thing is not peer-reviewed in the slightest. Thought we should get that straight.

Just seems strange for you to worship it so much when you normally bash on about the necessity for peer-review, innit.
No wriggling now or dishonest twisting of my words now please, Jazzz ("worship", indeed).

I answered your question promptly and politely.

Please return the favour. What's Kevin Ryan's qualifications please Jazzz?
 
Bob_the_lost said:
(On a more serrious note he worked for a company that had at least something to do with fire testing buildings. It is not clear that he has any qualification in the process itself as he was in charge of Health and saftey (or something similar) when he was fired.)
Oh very good! Double pun!!! :D
 
Backatcha Bandit said:
Are you sure it's not 'painfully stuipd'?

Just making sure, like. :) Any more edits?
Is pointing out promptly-corrected minor typos the best you can do? :rolleyes:

Still, I guess that's better than admitting to making an absolute cock of yourself with that cut and paste, fact-lite conspiraloonery.

What's next? Some snippets from Joe "No Facts!" Vialls?
 
editor said:
Stop lying and answer my question please. Thank you.

What's Kevin Ryan's qualifications please Jazzz?
I wasn't 'lying'. What kind of nonsense is this?

What bizarre place from the planet illogical are you coming from now?
 
editor said:
Is pointing out promptly-corrected minor typos the best you can do? :rolleyes:

Still, I guess that's better than admitting to making an absolute cock of yourself with that cut and paste, fact-lite conspiraloonery.

What's next? Some snippets from Joe "No Facts!" Vialls?
Oh, do fuck off, you tedious twerp.

Fact is, Romero is who he is and said what he said.

"My opinion is, based on the videotapes, that after the airplanes hit the World Trade Center there were some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to collapse,"

"It would be difficult for something from the plane to trigger an event like that,"

The fact that he later retracted his comments because he "felt like his scientific reputation was on the line" (and probably his funding) doesn't alter the fact that he made those statements.

Now perhaps you'd like to explain what the fuck 'Joe Vialls' has to do with anything?

Fuck all, that's what. Just you're contemptible sneering attempts to smear anyone who dares to speak their mind on this subject.

Any worthwhile comments on my point regarding 'peer review' that I posted in response to the comparison of 9/11 to 'cold fusion'?

Don't worry, I won't wait up. :rolleyes:
 
Backatcha Bandit said:
The fact that he later retracted his comments because he "felt like his scientific reputation was on the line" (and probably his funding) doesn't alter the fact that he made those statements.
Right. So when he's saying something you like it's the truth - even if he's only said it in the heat of the moment.

But if he later carefully clarifies his position and it turns out to be something you're not keen on, then you'll just ignore it, right?
 
Jazzz said:
I wasn't 'lying'. What kind of nonsense is this?

What bizarre place from the planet illogical are you coming from now?
Answer the question please, Jazzz.

What's Kevin Ryan's qualifications please?

Oh, and despite your attempts to divert the discussion, I made no mention about Protec's document being peer reviewed at all - you made that suggestion up on your own.

I did, however, remark that it was written by world leading experts who are hugely qualified in the field of demolition, unlike Stephen Jones.

Now answer my question please.
 
Jazzz said:
Well here's another expert in controlled demolitions.


Ummm, I wonder if that was judiciously editted. Fair enough he starts off saying that it looks like a controlled demolition, but later on he explains whats involved, the film doesn't show what sort of estimate of the time he did give. The impression he gives in the end in saying that it's odd is that he can't balance the timescale with the work that was required especially given that it was on fire!

Hope you're not seriously thinking that that clip was some sort of rebuttal of the Protec document.
 
Jazzz said:
Well here's another expert in controlled demolitions.

You stupid, stupid, stupid gullible moron. You've been fooled again by the liars who make up the 'truth seeking' movement. That video clip has been edited. You've been made to look a mug.
The Jowenko video on youtube is edited to show Jowenko’s reaction to the WTC7 collapse which he does indeed opine is a CD. However the portion of the show where Jowenko states that WTC 1 and 2 were clearly NOT CD has been edited out.
Here's the full video. He CLEARLY AND EMPHATICALLY states that it was NOT a controlled explosion.

I hope this really makes you think about the bullshit you've been fed, your own gullibility and the whole dishonesty of the 9/11 nutcases.

Watch and feel very stupid:
 
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