9/11 media happenings

[editor]

So the only motive for posting the video link was to send us away for a few minutes to give Jazzzzz time to make some shit up?

Standard Jazzz tactic. He's still running scared from questions I asked him weeks ago, even through the points were raised in direct response to his own claims here.

 

[pk]

I'm about to watch 9/11 Revisited and Alex Jones DVDs. The only way to convince some of these people is to play them at their own game.

 

[Structaural]

Here's the Protec Report again Jazz.

Good stuff on CD and molten metals...

Superb, informed report that. This bit is v. pertinent.

Considering the couple of feet thick piece of debris they showed on that BBC programme that was said to be 3 floors of the WTC, it seems more likely that the glowing material was compressed wood, plastics, masonry and softer metals. Like a firebrick on a barbecue.

 

[kyser_soze]

Can I just ask how you cut that out of the pdf? Do you have the whole of Acrobat as opposed to just the reader, or is there some Dark Arts secret to extracting stuff from a pdf?

 

[Crispy]

There's a Select Text tool, and a Select Image tool. On the toolbar, they're next to the Hand tool.

Although this PDF is locked and won't let you, so I imagine a screenshot was taken.

 

[kyser_soze]

Hmm, all i get when I highlight the bit of text I want to cut'n'paste I just get 'select all text'

Fucking Mac bollocks...what's wrong with a simply copycutnpaste on a right click eh?

 

[Structaural]

Can I just ask how you cut that out of the pdf? Do you have the whole of Acrobat as opposed to just the reader, or is there some Dark Arts secret to extracting stuff from a pdf?

I couldn't copy (protected PDF) so I just did a screen grab

 

[Structaural]

There's a Select Text tool, and a Select Image tool. On the toolbar, they're next to the Hand tool.

Although this PDF is locked and won't let you, so I imagine a screenshot was taken.

or what he said

 

[Structaural]

Hmm, all i get when I highlight the bit of text I want to cut'n'paste I just get 'select all text'

Fucking Mac bollocks...what's wrong with a simply copycutnpaste on a right click eh?

On the PC there are various extract text programs for protected PDFs - I haven't discovered the same on the Mac yet...

 

[kyser_soze]

AHH, i thought it mighg be a protected doc, hence the lack of c'n'p-ness...

As you were.

 

[tarannau]

I just use Acrobat itself to cut and paste on a mac?

 

[editor]

Interesting to discover that on that Holocaust-denying site that Jazzz posts on, he lets slip the thrill he gets out of being a "truth seeker":

I was much the same when it first became clear what was going on - and of course I don't just mean 9/11. It's quite exhilarating and disconcerting.

 

[pk]

I get quite a thrill pointing out that the organisation that Jazzz bases most of his "facts" on is actually an anti-semitic propaganda machine.

 

[Jazzz]

The anti-conspiracy theorists mindset is not an urban 75 speciality, or a BK crusade, Jazzz

Journalists, scientists, political writers, politicians, campaigners, physicists, and millions of people are anti-conspiracy theory

Some bulletin boards indulge posts on the subject and there are whole swathes of the internet devoted to CT stuff. However, u75 takes a firm line in order not to have a popular and intelligent site overrun with it, as far as I can tell.

And why is that?

Quite simply, conspiracy theories are paranoid bollocks. And peoeo who push them are mono-issue bores who cannot be argued with.

You will find that the vast majority of people are anti CT, if they think of them at all. Most people are unaware of them, when they do come across them they tend to be amused, repelled or simply shrug their shoulders from what I can see.

Anyone who cares about politics tends to be frustrated because of the sheer amount of wasted time and energy that goes into promoting this fruitbattery at the expense of rational dissent or doing anything useful. It is like a rationality-destroying virus, and if I was Bush, I'd be rubbing my hands in glee at the own goal.

Well here you go - you are blurring the line between not believing in 'conspiracy theories' and the peculiar mentality of feeling that they must be stamped out like 'a virus'... I don't see 'millions' of people like that at all. this is what I think is very prevalent on urban though Monbiot might have a dose of it. This just doesn't exist generally. Sure, far from everyone believes a 9/11 CT but this doesn't mean that they are bothered by it. Again, take the Jersey Girls' position where they say that CTists are 'just Americans looking for the truth, which is our right' - and they ARE part of the 9/11 Truth Movement by virtue of them rejecting the official investigation however you might contort yourself.

I'm staggered by the amount of personal attacks that go on whenever someone takes a line that questions an official story. I mean editor, for god's sake, knows damn well that I've made thousands of posts on urban75 over the years - I'm extremely well-known and open - yet he's been scouring all my posts on nineeleven.co.uk looking for something to hit me with. What on earth brings on this kind of personal baiting? And this is how you became infused with the same desire to haul the conspiracy theorists up to the stocks and give them a good public flogging... unlike the Jersey Girls. Really this place has a lot to answer for.

 

[Crispy]

Hi Jazzz! Read this yet?

 

[Jazzz]

I get quite a thrill pointing out that the organisation that Jazzz bases most of his "facts" on is actually an anti-semitic propaganda machine.

Leaving aside the small quibble that nothing I've ever posted has been 'anti-semitic propaganda', I've hardly taken anything from AFP. That molten steel quote - where we have plenty of other sources... what else? I can remember one other, a discussion of the engine found at the Pentagon.

I fully appreciate that you get thrills from smearing and denigrating pk.

 

[tarannau]

As opposed to you, who gets his thrills by imagining holographic planes, hidden-pod missiles and human voice generators, speculating wildly on events that have cost the lives of many.

When it's laughable stuff like Pentawater it's easy enough to ignore. Even the "Huntley's innocent, it was the USAF wot done it' thread was almost funny. But when it's events like 9/11, where you're alleging many are complicit or blind to the events which caused the deaths of thousands then it's a little more grating to see the least. Especially when you seem hellbent on picturing many of the relatives and witnesses as supporters of the 'truth movement' and some of its more wacky theories. If they had seen you make such a bonehead of yourself as repeatedly as we've seen on these boards, then I suspect they'd be downright insulting to you.

Take Badger Kitten and many of the tube bomb survivors for example. It's not as though you've won many friends there is it?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

"I believe that George Bush is surrounded by some of the most scheming, devious, ruthless men to have found their way into government since the days of the Borgias. I believe that they were criminally negligent in failing to respond to intelligence about a potential attack by Al Qaeda, and that they have sought to disguise their incompetence by classifying crucial documents. I believe, too, that the Bush government seized the opportunity provided by the attacks to pursue a long-standing plan to invade Iraq and reshape the Middle East, knowing full well that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. Bush deliberately misled the American people about the links between 9/11 and Iraq and about Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction. He is responsible for the murder of many tens of thousands of Iraqis.

But none of this is sufficient. To qualify as a true opponent of the Bush regime, you must also now believe that it is capable of magic"

http://www.monbiot.com


The real conspiracy, neatly summed up. Something that "truth seekers" should be investigating in their thousands.

But I guess magic is more exciting to believe in

 

[fela fan]

I read that article yesterday bees, and sorry to say i thought it a pretty poor piece of journalism.

One theme that it ran through was labelling a group of people who hold certain opinions and/or behave in certain ways, then denigrating those people, calling them 'moral cowards' and the like, and then hey presto, bingo, they MUST be wrong.

Another thing i found distasteful was how he objected to those he had decided were getting in the way of the 'real work', the work he and others were trying to carry out, like as if he was some kind of saviour, while those he was denigrating were just helping bush and blair. Oh yeah!! What has monbiot done towards getting bush and blair out of power and straight into the slammer??

Does he write on urban by any chance...

 

[Yossarian]

It seems the '9/11 Truth' movement has mostly decided that George Monbiot said what he did, not because that's his real opinion, but because he's working for the Zionists.

"9/11 Truth - you're with us, or you're with the Jews."

 

[fela fan]

The anti-conspiracy theorists mindset is not an urban 75 speciality, or a BK crusade, Jazzz

Journalists, scientists, political writers, politicians, campaigners, physicists, and millions of people are anti-conspiracy theory

Some bulletin boards indulge posts on the subject and there are whole swathes of the internet devoted to CT stuff. However, u75 takes a firm line in order not to have a popular and intelligent site overrun with it, as far as I can tell.

And why is that?

Quite simply, conspiracy theories are paranoid bollocks. And peoeo who push them are mono-issue bores who cannot be argued with.

You will find that the vast majority of people are anti CT, if they think of them at all. Most people are unaware of them, when they do come across them they tend to be amused, repelled or simply shrug their shoulders from what I can see.

Anyone who cares about politics tends to be frustrated because of the sheer amount of wasted time and energy that goes into promoting this fruitbattery at the expense of rational dissent or doing anything useful. It is like a rationality-destroying virus, and if I was Bush, I'd be rubbing my hands in glee at the own goal.

What a whole load of hot air this post is. Firstly how can you be so sure you speak for 'millions of people' and the 'vast majority of people', never mind all those 'journalists, scientists, political writers, politicians, campaigners, physicists'?? How on earth did you come to know what they think about all of this?

As for caring about politics, all politics is is a divisive mechanism. You can see it on threads like these, where so much vitriol gets chucked around. If anyone cares about life and humanity, they won't care about politics.

You seem to be one of those that monbiot talked about, doing the REAL work and having to deal with those pesky batty mental cowards muddying the waters, stopping you from your crusade to bring bush and blair to account for their war crimes.

And wow, look at this: 'and if I was Bush, I'd be rubbing my hands in glee at the own goal'.

Ha, maybe you are monbiot. Either way badger, you just keep on doing the good work bringing to account those murderous leaders of ours, when they're in jail i'll come back to thank you. Just be sure to stop those nutters from diverting you from your crusade. How tiresome they are.

 

[editor]

What has monbiot done towards getting bush and blair out of power and straight into the slammer??

Compared to the bedroom fantasy 'truth-seekers', Monbiot's been a veritable firestorm of activism.

Why not do a search to see what's he done and then compare it to the 'achievements' of Jazzz and his fellow posters on that 9/11 UK website (you know, the one that freely carries Holocaust-denying articles)?

 

[fela fan]

It seems the '9/11 Truth' movement has mostly decided that George Monbiot said what he did, not because that's his real opinion, but because he's working for the Zionists.

"9/11 Truth - you're with us, or you're with the Jews."

What did you think about his article mate? From a journalism point of view, or just regarding what he was writing about?

Personally if i was a journalist with a good reputation (i believe he fits this description), i'd want to take that article back and bin it sharpish. It's bloody dreadful! I can't remember the word for it, but all it's doing is appealing to the already converted, while simultaneously rubbishing those that have different opinions. Hardly the stuff of persuasive journalism is it?

 

[Yossarian]

As for caring about politics, all politics is is a divisive mechanism. You can see it on threads like these, where so much vitriol gets chucked around. If anyone cares about life and humanity, they won't care about politics.

If you don't care about politics, why are you posting in a forum - out of the whole wide expanse of the internet - that is unmistakably all about politics?

Do you go on the Harley-Davidson forums and bitch about all the people caring about motorbikes?

 

[fela fan]

Compared to the bedroom fantasy 'truth-seekers', Monbiot's been a veritable firestorm of activism.

Why not do a search to see what's he done and then compare it to the 'achievements' of Jazzz and his fellow posters on that 9/11 UK website (you know, the one that freely carries Holocaust-denying articles)?

I have the 'monbiot' stored in an area of my brain that sends out positive messages. I always thought he was one of the better journalists. But that piece of his two days ago is really shoddy journalism.

 

[fela fan]

If you don't care about politics, why are you posting in a forum - out of the whole wide expanse of the internet - that is unmistakably all about politics?

Do you go on the Harley-Davidson forums and bitch about all the people caring about motorbikes?

This is the only forum i go to.

I think you're getting too hung over literal meanings of words. Too bad for yerself.

Y'see mate, i care about getting rid of politics. That's why i pop up here, and have been enjoying doing so for a while now. I want a new default for humanity, politics is too negative, too divisive, and requires war to feed it.

That is not agreeable to me.

 

[Yossarian]

What did you think about his article mate? From a journalism point of view, or just regarding what he was writing about?

It wasn't journalism - he didn't have any news to report in there, it was an opinion piece.

Now anyone can write an opinion piece - but Monbiot's got the background that his opinion is widely respected, but even if he didn't, I thought he made a very convincing case, and I agreed with what he had to say.

 

[editor]

I have the 'monbiot' stored in an area of my brain that sends out positive messages. I always thought he was one of the better journalists. But that piece of his two days ago is really shoddy journalism.

You're entitled to your opninion, but I'd suggest you don't like it because you don't agree with it.

In my opinion, it was an excellent article that got to the heart of conspiraloonery.

And your notion that he's somehow, "appealing to the already converted" just shows how out of touch you are. Apart from the fact that most people in the UK don't give a flying fuck either way about bonkers conspiracy theories, Monbiot has never put himself forward as some sort of debunker.

I imagine he's just fed up with gullible tossers being distracted by the ridiculous nonsense spouted by the self styled 'truth seeker' - ahem - 'movement' while the real-world issues gain far less publicity.

 

[fela fan]

You're entitled to your opninion, but I'd suggest you don't like it because you don't agree with it.

In my opinion, it was an excellent article that got to the heart of conspiraloonery.

I imagine he's just fed up with gullible tossers being distracted by the ridiculous nonsense spouted by the self styled 'truth seeker' - ahem - 'movement' while the real-world issues gain far less publicity.

Well, then in the same spirit i'd suggest you DO like it because you agree with it. Takes two to tango mate.

He's obviously fed up with certain people, and he declared it was because they were damaging the very real work he himself was engaged in.

Furthermore, some of the stuff he wrote in getting 'to the heart of conspiraloonery' had nothing to do with objectivity or evidence or facts. It was just his opinion. But he presented it in such a way that they were known facts.

 

[fela fan]

"Why do I bother with these morons? Because they are destroying the movements some of us have spent a long time trying to build."

What a warrior this monbiot must be! And those morons 'destroying' his work, tiresome people getting in the way of HIS work.

"...the chickens in the "truth" movement focus instead on a fairytale, knowing that nothing they do or say will count, knowing that because the perpetrators don't exist, they can't fight back."

Look at him, just like so many: talking on behalf of those he denigrates, like as if he can know what they're thinking. Very poor journalism.

"Concerned that I might have missed something, I have now done all those things, and have come across exactly the same concatenation of ill-attested nonsense as I saw in Loose Change."

So that would be that then.

It's true to form i suppose, bash the messenger, avoid/twist the message.