‘March for the Alternative’ - 26th March - London

[Urbanblues]

wow, arent you quite the bon viveur you fantasist dullard

Urgheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

 

[BigTom]

A Defendants campaign has been launched for the 145 Arrestees from the UK Uncut Fortnum and Mason action..

The website is www.fortnum145.org
twitter is @FM145 and #Fortnum145
facebook

At the moment there is not alot to do except follow it and send messages of solidarity, but I hope that there will be solidarity demo's/actions arranged in support of the arrestees.
It's 145 not 138 because we don't know if any of the other 7 are going to be charged yet..

 

[BigTom]

Liberty have released their report about the 26th - PDF

It was not within our remit to observe the policing of events after the TUC march or completely extraneous to it.

There can be no doubt that the official trade union-led demonstration was overwhelmingly civil, peaceful and good-natured and that the police response was in general proportionate

As is now well known, there was a significant police response at Fortnum & Mason. Our observation of these events was limited to their impact on the TUC march. We did not observe events inside the building or outside after the official march had ended.

Another observer recorded at 4.25pm that the police response was proportionate, noting that: “police officers pushing against protestors who are pushing back outside Fortnum & Mason… force used by police not unreasonable”. At 4.40pm another noted: “Stand off. Two lines riot police - one line charging down Duke Street St James'. Police charging peaceful protestors to clear the street. Atmosphere aggressive and hostile on both sides… Very unpleasant.”

- watch from around 3 minutes for stuff outside of f&m and what I think is oxford street.. some is fine, some pushing seems over the top and there are sheild strikes shown, plus a guy with a head injury (but we don't know the reason for that)

The possibility of mass containment of peaceful protesters has undoubtedly had a chilling effect on many people’s rights to freedom of expression and assembly.

We are aware from media reports that a significant number of arrests were made later in the evening as a result of the events at Fortnum & Mason, and that the police were engaged in a number of separate public order incidents in central London long after the TUC march had ended. As these occurred after our observation had concluded we are not in a position to provide any comment.

We are aware that, in the days following the march, there have been some calls for tougher police action, or even new police powers, to deal with violent groups who infiltrate such demonstrations. Nothing that we observed suggested that either response would help to protect the rights of those who are affected by such incidents

So yeah, set yourself up so that you are only looking at the place where there is very unlikely to be any kind of issue with the policing, in order that you can say there was no problem with the policing.

Basically a mixed bag - I know I had a conversation somewhere with people about what Liberty would be like observing this and this report doesn't help much. It's probably totally fair, and as they didn't have observers inside f&m, on oxford street, later on at piccadilly or trafalgar square, then it's not surprising they didn't see anything that they considered disproportionate, and of course they cannot comment on such things in their observation report.
They have said that the willingness to kettle was not right and that kettling has issues, and also rejecting calls for new police powers.

But I think how they react after this will be important to my view of their role on the day. As I said above they set themselves up to watch one part of the day, the part where the police would be unlikely to have anything much to deal with, and as such the police can now use this report to claim their policing on the day was fine, neglecting to be explicit about the fact that the report only covers a limited area of the days events.
Whether Liberty will point this out (or be able to) I'm not sure, and I should re-read the newspaper articles I skimmed earlier to see how this is actually playing out in the press.

 

[CyberRose]

So yeah, set yourself up so that you are only looking at the place where there is very unlikely to be any kind of issue with the policing, in order that you can say there was no problem with the policing.

Or vice versa with the protesters...

 

[killer b]

Or vice versa with the protesters...

what interest would liberty have in the behaviour of the protestors? their focus is (i believe) on the activities of the state, not the civilian.

 

[CyberRose]

what interest would liberty have in the behaviour of the protestors? their focus is (i believe) on the activities of the state, not the civilian.

So they can use the word "proportionate"? (Or, of course, "disproportionate")

 

[DotCommunist]

and even if they did focus on protestors behavior a couple of hundred nickings out of a half million crowd is good going- theres worse on saturday nights.

 

[killer b]

they've chosen to avoid the very flashpoints where they would be forced by events to say one thing or the other - which makes it a waste of an exercise as far as everyone is concerned.

i wonder why they bothered.

 

[CyberRose]

and even if they did focus on protestors behavior a couple of hundred nickings out of a half million crowd is good going- theres worse on saturday nights.

There weren't half a million new kids on the black block tho were there? And I doubt very much whether everybody who committed a crime got arrested (probably a small percentage)

 

[CyberRose]

they've chosen to avoid the very flashpoints where they would be forced by events to say one thing or the other - which makes it a waste of an exercise as far as everyone is concerned.

True, altho I'm confused by Liberty's statements that the police were too "focussed on kettling" - are they referring to the TUC march or the activities of the poshos of the black block? They were in the police control room, but presumably (?) that control room was directing police for both TUC and black block? So who we they too focussed on kettling? If the black block then they were observing the operation in your flashpoints (albeit from a distance and not on the streets)

 

[DaveCinzano]

There were some harsh words for Liberty both from the panels and from the floor at the 'Standing Up To Surveillance' conference hosted by the Network for Police Monitoring at the weekend. It seems that Green & Black Cross legal observers had been trying to get in touch with Liberty for a time before the M26 demo but been stonewalled - and then came the announcement of the deal with the Met.

 

[DotCommunist]

There weren't half a million new kids on the black block tho were there? And I doubt very much whether everybody who committed a crime got arrested (probably a small percentage)

It was not within our remit to observe the policing of events after the TUC march or completely extraneous to it.

So vice versa focus would not be on black bloc either

And I doubt very much whether everybody who committed a crime got arrested (probably a small percentage)

Psi judge, precog division.

 

[CyberRose]

So vice versa focus would not be on black bloc either

Isn't that what I said!?

Psi judge, precog division.

No just watching youtube videos etc...

 

[IC3D]

I saw Liberty furiously noting in note books the damage caused to banks along Piccadilly don't know why though sharing information with the OB was my first thought.

 

[skitr]

Their report is only to do with the main March. Interesting that they were even considering kettling on the march...

 

[CyberRose]

Their report is only to do with the main March. Interesting that they were even considering kettling on the march...

Were they?

I've not read the full report (and let's face it, I never will) so feel free to correct, but as I mentioned above, Liberty were based in the 'control room', which presumably was also directing operations against the black block as well as the TUC operation. The BBC article says kettling was under "near constant consideration" when potential trouble spots emerged. Were these "trouble spots" at the TUC march? Anybody see them? If not, that would suggest kettling was considered for the black block, not necessarily the TUC march...

 

[Blagsta]

True, altho I'm confused by Liberty's statements that the police were too "focussed on kettling" - are they referring to the TUC march or the activities of the poshos of the black block? They were in the police control room, but presumably (?) that control room was directing police for both TUC and black block? So who we they too focussed on kettling? If the black block then they were observing the operation in your flashpoints (albeit from a distance and not on the streets)

How could you possibly tell that?

 

[BigTom]

Were they?

I've not read the full report (and let's face it, I never will) so feel free to correct, but as I mentioned above, Liberty were based in the 'control room', which presumably was also directing operations against the black block as well as the TUC operation. The BBC article says kettling was under "near constant consideration" when potential trouble spots emerged. Were these "trouble spots" at the TUC march? Anybody see them? If not, that would suggest kettling was considered for the black block, not necessarily the TUC march...

They mention a couple of points, when the "Armed Wing of the TUC" apparently set fire to their trojan horse outside downing st (iirc, I've not re-read the report).
It's not at all clear though what they are talking about tbh.
They had observers physically out on the streets only along the TUC march route, but presumably would have seen/heard all of it from the control room, but they don't comment on it, or make it clear where the kettling they are talking about might have taken place, aside from one (or maybe two) incidents.

My impression is that they are talking about the main march and that whenever it looked like a group might not just be content with marching onwards towards hyde park, the police were ready to kettle them, but as I say it's not at all clear.

 

[embree]

How could you possibly tell that?

The handful of people I know who were involved are a very long way away from being 'poshos'

 

[BigTom]

The handful of people I know who were involved are a very long way away from being 'poshos'

ditto

 

[ymu]

Were they?

I've not read the full report (and let's face it, I never will) so feel free to correct, but as I mentioned above, Liberty were based in the 'control room', which presumably was also directing operations against the black block as well as the TUC operation. The BBC article says kettling was under "near constant consideration" when potential trouble spots emerged. Were these "trouble spots" at the TUC march? Anybody see them? If not, that would suggest kettling was considered for the black block, not necessarily the TUC march...

They had observers along the route of the march, not just in the control room.

We were outside Fortnum & Mason when a group of UK Uncut trotted through and got in after a bit of a scuffle with four policemen on the door. Shortly after that, a small group of black bloc arrived along with a dozen or so riot police from behind us and a riot van driving through the crowd in front. I was in sole charge of a 12 year old at the time, so we scarpered. They blocked/kettled the entire march behind us for nearly an hour after that.

 

[Blagsta]

The handful of people I know who were involved are a very long way away from being 'poshos'

Same as that.

 

[skitr]

Were they?

I've not read the full report (and let's face it, I never will) so feel free to correct, but as I mentioned above, Liberty were based in the 'control room', which presumably was also directing operations against the black block as well as the TUC operation. The BBC article says kettling was under "near constant consideration" when potential trouble spots emerged. Were these "trouble spots" at the TUC march? Anybody see them? If not, that would suggest kettling was considered for the black block, not necessarily the TUC march...

In the actual report, which most of the news agencies, surprise surprise, have looked over, it states:

It was not within our remit to observe the policing of events after the TUC march, or completely extraneous to it.

http://www.liberty-human-rights.org...ving-at-the-tuc-march-for-the-alternative.pdf

Thank god for GBC.

 

[embree]

So basically their remit was to observe the policing of a TUC organised A to B march which had zero chance of being subject to any kind of state repression at all?

So what was the point?

 

[BigTom]

So basically their remit was to observe the policing of a TUC organised A to B march which had zero chance of being subject to any kind of state repression at all?

So what was the point?

imo to give the police something they could wave about saying that their policing was fine, no matter what they did away from the march. I hope liberty prove me wrong by extending their remit to events beyond the march.

 

[winjer]

It's probably totally fair, and as they didn't have observers inside f&m, on oxford street, later on at piccadilly or trafalgar square, then it's not surprising they didn't see anything that they considered disproportionate, and of course they cannot comment on such things in their observation report.

Experienced legal observers (e.g. LDMG) know they need to be flexible and can only observe police action by being where it is happening. Liberty claim to have been doing legal observing since 1934 (ignoring all the gaps) so their total failure to observe anything useful shows what a useless scab organisation they've become.

Whether Liberty will point this out (or be able to) I'm not sure, and I should re-read the newspaper articles I skimmed earlier to see how this is actually playing out in the press.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[winjer]

They mention a couple of points, when the "Armed Wing of the TUC" apparently set fire to their trojan horse outside downing st (iirc, I've not re-read the report).
It's not at all clear though what they are talking about tbh.

Chris Knight and his Merry Men: http://www.battleofbritainmarch26.org/march26/Why_Armed_Wing.html
The horse was eventually burned at Oxford Circus:

"Netpol’s response to Liberty’s report on the policing of TUC march" is worth reading:
http://networkforpolicemonitoring.org.uk/?p=254

 

[BigTom]

Yeah, it's not clear whether they are talking about threats of a kettle happening outside downing street or elsewhere, ie: were the people in the control room also responding to threats/kettles away from the main march. I think probably not, as this would be outside their remit, but it's not totally clear.

Thanks for the netpol link, hadn't see that.

 

[CyberRose]

How could you possibly tell that?

Because you rarely hear regional accents on the YouTube videos, those that aren't dressed in black clothes are dressed like students and it looks like the majority are carrying hundreds and hundreds of pounds worth of photographic equipment with them. Not your typical working classes at any rate.

I suppose they might not have graduated yet or haven't found a graduate type job after finishing uni which may mean their current situation wasn't "posh", but I tend to base a person's upbringing as whether they are posh or not (i.e. accent and have you had an expensive camera brought for you as a birthday present?)



I await the roasting!

 

[Blagsta]