‘March for the Alternative’ - 26th March - London

[Kizmet]

For the first time in a long time there's genuine unity of opposition now isn't the time for separatist action.

 

[Kizmet]

That's undoubtedly true - how do we raise the level of political awareness? The question occurred to me as I walked through the shoppers of the west end afterwards. Some were totally oblivious as to what was going on. It both annoyed and depressed me. How do we reach them? Do we need to? Or is it just a matter of waiting until the cuts bite them? Argh.

This was part of the point of the marches, wasn't it? You reach them by getting them to join in.

 

[claphamboy]

Yes, you did.

No, I didn't!

No it couldn't.

Yes, it could!

How would private sector industries be included in a public sector strike?

You seem to fail to understand that public services, where workers used to be employed directly by the 'public sector' and were farmed out to private companies can still be considered in the ‘'public sector'.

Definitions of Public sector on the Web:

Industries or services provided or funded by the government.

That part of the economy which is owned or controlled by the public, usually through government agencies.

Anyway, numbnuts, I can’t be arsed with your silly games ATM, as my other half will be home in a minute, with a good chance of my nuts getting played with, so I’ll bid you goodnight and leave you to play on your own.

 

[claphamboy]

.

BTW - you didn't need to edit that post, I took the & onboard & laughed.

 

[Corax]

We

lol

 

[Kizmet]

I didn't vote for them. Lord knows how they got in when no-body else seems to have voted for them either.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I doubted they would get in in the first place.

You were being a bit dim then.

A public sector strike without general backing is like an open goal.

A public sector strike without general backing wouldn't get past the ballot you knobend.

 

[Proper Tidy]

A public sector strike that would hurt the government financially would be the Inland Revenue. In any case the idea of public sector strikes is to cause disruption and thus inconvenience the government as employer. The cuts are affecting jobs so a strike is a legitimate industrial dispute. As Mark Serwotka pointed out yesterday in his speech, the effects of public sector strikes are much greater if they all happen at the same time. The issue of pension cuts across the entire public sector is a unifying factor.

Co-ordinated demands for a reversal of these cuts could be made, and when the government response is negative, strike ballots across the sector would coincide. This would be less than a General Strike but how one of those could be created is beyond me. A real General Strike would probably generate opposition from Lib Dem supporters who would volunteer to drive buses and do the various scab like activities that happened in the last General Strike. The level of political awareness in this country is rather low.

Good post. I agree the level of political awareness is low - however, awareness/consciousness would increase during a struggle. Horse/cart.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

I didn't vote for them. Lord knows how they got in when no-body else seems to have voted for them either.

Because two parties who didn't get elected got together and asked the Queen to fix it for them to run the country, and she agreed. I blame the Queen who should have given them a flea in their respective ears and sent them packing.

 

[frogwoman]

Did anyone else see the leaflets from the Money Supply Reform Party? Do they win the 'best political fringe group' award?

Edit: watching a Swappie try and sell papers to about 20 black bloc was a definite bit of light relief ... Top marks to him for effort, at least

I got some leaflets from them yeah.


Just had an email from my branch sec. Apparently I helped raise over £200 for the strikers

 

[Proper Tidy]

No, I didn't!

You did. It's there. Everybody can read it.

Yes, it could!

No.

You seem to fail to understand that public services, where workers used to be employed directly by the 'public sector' and were farmed out to private companies can still be considered in the ‘'public sector'.

Either they are employed by local or central govt or they are not. Get a grip.

 

[You'reAToryToo]

Was anyone else at Trafalgar Sqr last night? I've only just woken up having got home around lunch time today. Was awesome when around 50 riot vans and coaches were whizzing over aswell as the storm troopers come up from that road (don't know the name, Big Ben in the distance) whilst everyone was doing the Star Wars theme tune (least I think it's the theme tune, the do do do one?). Sorry about the post however I've just woken up so I'm still getting back to normal terms. Pain is finally setting in after the adrenaline.

 

[Kizmet]

You were being a bit dim then.

As you are being now.

A public sector strike without general backing wouldn't get past the ballot you knobend.

You would have the general public vote on public sector ballots? How does that work?

 

[Corax]

Was anyone else at Trafalgar Sqr last night? I've only just woken up having got home around lunch time today. Was awesome when around 50 riot vans and coaches were whizzing over aswell as the storm troopers come up from that road (don't know the name, Big Ben in the distance) whilst everyone was doing the Star Wars theme tune (least I think it's the theme tune, the do do do one?). Sorry about the post however I've just woken up so I'm still getting back to normal terms. Pain is finally setting in after the adrenaline.

Sounds like you had fun.

 

[Proper Tidy]

As you are being now.



You would have the general public vote on public sector ballots? How does that work?

I am amazed at your cluelessness.

 

[Kizmet]

I'm only surprised at your childishness.

 

[Fingers]

CNN's take on this last night on TV was, 500,000 people in London protesting against austerity measures, there website seems to give different figures.

They also reported that on Libyan TV the London demo was shown and it was reported that the demo was the British people demonstrating against the use of force in Libya and that Libya is calling for the UN to have a no-fly zone in the UK to protect the people from the forces of the state.

I went yesterday with another lovely Urb. It was a great day and the 250,000 estimate was a little on the low side ino. We were stuck behind the Gadaffi crew at Trafalgar Square.

 

[Blagsta]

still a passive agressive clown Kizmet I see

 

[ViolentPanda]

Absolutely. And in this environment how can it be seen to be a good idea to suggest a 'down tools'?

You still, after everything, appear to believe that a strike means that x, y and z won't get done. That isn't the case. Ancillary staff provide emergency cover just like the doctors and nurses.
Incidentally, if your hospital ward is dirty enough that hard-to-treat infections are taking place, not "cleaning" for 24 hours won't make a perceptible distance, because whatever cleaning techniques are being used are obviously ineffective.

If the suggestion is that this will somehow improve for that 24 hour period then perhaps those tools should be permanently downed.

Nobody has suggested that, you strange person.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So there will be a strike where nothing changes. And you are accusing me of being difficult?

It's fairly obvious that he's saying that a strike will not make a difference to staffing levels on wards - that staffing levels would be equally poor, equally minimal whether there were a strike taking place or not, so he's saying "nothing changes" with reference to those staffing levels, and nothing else.

 

[ViolentPanda]

And so we come full circle.... if those are the things you are trying to achieve a strike is not necessarily the best way to achieve it.

Nobody has claimed that it is.

You appear to be conducting parallel conversations on here and in your head, and getting the two mixed up.

 

[ViolentPanda]

There are 2 problems... a) a 24 hour general strike is unlikely b) It wouldn't have the desired effect without massive public backing.

We might assume it's there, but that's no guarantee. Large amounts of people are pissed off at the government, we don't want them to be distracted by being pissed off with each other.

Pardon the question, but who are you to decide what "we" want?

 

[ViolentPanda]

A 24 hour public sector strike would have the backing of the overwhelming majority of public sector workers. It doesn't need the backing of anybody else but the workers taking strike action (although, of course, everybody knows at least one public sector worker), and such a strike would provide the opportunity to put the alternatives to the austerity programme firmly on the agenda, with a view to a 24 hour general strike.

Co-ordinated public sector strikes are not 'unlikely' given the whole of the pubic sector is being attacked (pensions would be a good bet); and, as with all these things, a mass campaign calling for co-ordinated action across all public sector unions would vastly increase the likelihood.

You should, IMHO, bear in mind that it's not only public sector workers you need to aim to get gee'd up, it's the volunteers, the people down at community level that Cameron sees as fodder for his "Big Society" that you should go for too, because they're whom the govt will try to fall back on in the event of an extended strike.
Obviously, it's easier to reach the union members, like.

 

[Corax]

Pardon the question, but who are you to decide what "we" want?

I think s/he's the voice of the silent majority or something.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The media often bang on about how the march was all about the public sector. Bollocks was it. It was and will continue to be about everyone.

Hear bloody hear!

 

[ViolentPanda]

And, should they manage it, would score a massive publicity boost. Might even be enough to see them re-elected.

Historically it hasn't worked out that well for them. People tend to resent governments whose politicians have shown insufficient nous to avoid large-scale industrial action.

You're grasping at straws in an attempt to justify your POV.

 

[Proper Tidy]

You should, IMHO, bear in mind that it's not only public sector workers you need to aim to get gee'd up, it's the volunteers, the people down at community level that Cameron sees as fodder for his "Big Society" that you should go for too, because they're whom the govt will try to fall back on in the event of an extended strike.
Obviously, it's easier to reach the union members, like.

Your last point is what it is about really - calling for a general strike now is superficial really, TUC isn't going to go for it - but co-ordinated p/s strikes are already on the cards so a 24 hour gen p/s strike is feasible and can be used to build for a gen strike and to push the mass movement on.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I didn't vote for them. Lord knows how they got in when no-body else seems to have voted for them either.

Trev voted for them, and I've heard rumours that some wrong'un called Corax did, too.

And you should at least try to bear in mind that nobody voted "them" in, "they" got in because they formed a coalition.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I got some leaflets from them yeah.


Just had an email from my branch sec. Apparently I helped raise over £200 for the strikers

That's you on MI5's shit-list, then!

 

[ViolentPanda]

You did. It's there. Everybody can read it.



No.



Either they are employed by local or central govt or they are not. Get a grip.

You and ClaphamBoy's back and forth argument is making me feel like I@m at a pantomime!