EG
The standoff in Catalonia has been one of the worst constitutional crises since Spain’s transition to democracy. How would you explain the events of the last few months to an international audience?
PI
Spain is a plurinational country. In some countries, this kind of composition is easily recognized. An example would be the UK, where English, Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Irish identities coexist. This is also the case in Belgium and Switzerland. There are other countries, however, where there is a clear correspondence between the state and the nation. This is the classic idea of the nation-state coming from the
French and the
American Revolutions, in which state and nation are aligned.
In Spain different national identities coexist but they do so in a way that is disjointed. For example, inside Catalonia, Spanish national sentiment also exists [as was seen with the recent pro-monarchy demonstrations in Barcelona] and this is also true of the Basque Country and Navarre. And, at the same time, there are territories in Spain with identities recognized as nationalities, although without having any intention of separating — such as the Valencian Community and Andalusia. As a consequence of these identities, there is political conflict as well as diverse institutional arrangements. Therefore, there are not only cultural differences but also distinct judicial systems, with different civil law in Catalonia to the one operating in Castile.
During recent months, we have witnessed the unfolding of the
independentista strategy of unilateral “disconnection,” which has led to a dead end. We are now at a point where, on the one hand, we have a right-wing government backed by a broad block of pro-monarchy parties, as well as by the entire judiciary and the power of the state, which is unable to provide an inclusive proposal for Catalonia or to redefine the Spanish constitution territorially. On the other hand, we have an independence movement with an exhausted strategy: having seen what it entails to confront the central government, it is left with few moves going forward. Instead of this impasse, we need dialogue to reconstruct the state as a plurinational entity.
We in Unidos Podemos defend Catalonia’s right to a legally negotiated referendum. Though not pro-independence, we are in favor of recognizing Catalonia as a nation and see the need for a new constitutional framework, or adjustment, recognizing this fact.
...
TG
A number of Catalan leaders who had been imprisoned have been recently released on bail. But the escalation to the point they were imprisoned at all was remarkable. What do the last two months reveal about the state of Spanish democracy?
PI
The imprisonment of elected politicians reveals deficiencies in Spanish democracy. We have always talked in terms of political prisoners, even though this does not necessarily mean we agree with their core beliefs or strategies. We think that, in a democracy, political conflicts should be resolved through political channels, not with police intervention. There is no judicial solution to the Catalan problem but there are political solutions which will later inform the law. Democracy should be the source of the law, not the other way around.
It is outrageous that the current scale of corruption in the governing Partido Popular has been met with such impunity, while Catalan political leaders are imprisoned under charges that many legal officials see as having little basis. This has been made evident in the withdrawal of the demands for [Catalan Premier] Puigdemont’s extradition. The Spanish government feared that, in a Belgian court, no substantial charges could be pressed against him. This exceptional situation paints a worrying picture of receding democracy.
