Spanish Political News

[Favelado]

You're very busy on Google right now aren't you?

 

[Casually Red]

You're very busy on Google right now aren't you?

Yeah funny enough . I'm buying a fire stick from a bloke in a pub later and need the local bus timetable .

Eta

Oh you mean I looked up the stuff on google that said the predominant academic view was what I said . I told you half an hour ago I looked it up . That train has sailed señor .

 

[Casually Red]

This is just the simplistic armchair nonsense of someone who has little idea about the Basque Country nor Catalonia. "They" is the giveaway. If only these places were in the kind of situation where there was a simple "they". It's a mess exactly because there is isn't.

Ok then ..I'll substitute the word " they " for the majority of their elected representatives whom they voted for to promote their language and national independence over the Spanish one . Those ones who rejected the Spanish monarchy and legislated for a republic instead .

 

[J Ed]

There is no "they".

In the Basque Country roughly speaking half of them are not nationalist. There are all sorts of shades even among the half that are nationalist: regionalists, federalists, separatists, and so on. Lots of even them regard themselves as both Basque and Spanish, which would not be affected by independence. Like Scots and Welsh being British.

Under 17% of Basques want independence, of course many who do not want independence still vote for Basque Nationalists Solo el 16,9% de los vascos quiere la independencia

 

[Favelado]

I reckon Vallecas is pushing 5% for declaring a republic.

Miss living there sometimes.

 

[Casually Red]

Under 17% of Basques want independence, of course many who do not want independence still vote for Basque Nationalists Solo el 16,9% de los vascos quiere la independencia

According to El Pais .

 

[J Ed]

According to El Pais .

No, according to polling conducted by Deusto University. There is no credible polling company showing anywhere near a majority for Basque independence.

 

[Favelado]

Historically Basques were very comfortable with autonomy. If I recall correctly (and there's no guarantee of that on this topic), it was when a set of autonomous laws called fueros being rescinded that first motivated real nationalism.

Then 40 years of dictatorship and all the oppression that came with it.

Basques became tired of the bloodshed during the ETA-state war, and again would rather have a high degree of autonomy than break from Spain. This is what the polls reflect now. In the future, anything is possible, and genuine independence sentiment could rise again.

It's hard to imagine what Iberia will look like in 5 or ten years from now. So many factors. So much left versus right, so much centralism vs. nationalism, so much pijo versus pueblo. A complicated country - or countries.

 

[JuanTwoThree]

In a class with a vip Basque politician he explained to me half jokingly that a referendum would have to be a rectangle with a dotted line across it, to represent the present state of affairs. Each voter would shade in exactly what they wanted: no shading would mean direct rule from Madrid, shading the lot would be total independence , shading where the dotted line was would indicate wanting things how they are. I reckoned most people would want at least all the parts of the statute of Gernika ratified, so a bit more than the present situation but he said that he doubted if there'd be any agreement as to what "they" wanted. He was PNV.

 

[rekil]

Then go to fucking Madrid . Or Valencia...or Seville . Fucking simple .

Had this bollocks in ghaoith dobhair years ago . Germans , French, English and swiss whod bought their little cottages turning up at residents meetings complaining they weren't being held in English . Tough shit...not the lingua franca . Inconvenient but shit happens .

There is no such place as "ghaoith dobhair". There is a Gaoth Dobhair. In Irish, spelling changes depending on grammatical context so for example, Dublin (Baile Átha Cliath) City Council (Comhairle Cathrach) is Comhairle Cathrach Bhaile Átha Cliath and Gweedore Public Library is Leabharlann Phobail Ghaoth Dobhair. But that's not what's going on here. It's just spoofing. by a creep that can't speak a word of 'his' language, and the little tale is made up to suit his latest fucked up weirdo nationalist hobby horse.

 

[JuanTwoThree]

Initial consonant mutation: making Celtic languages difficult for centuries.

The problem for nationalists, and I consider myself a Welsh Nationalist who cares not for the bigger European states that contain more than one nation and would dearly love to see Spain broken up (though exactly how much I am not sure any more than I 'know' how much I want the UK dismantled) and taking a republican and progressive path, there's no getting away from the fact that every other fucker on the streets of many parts of these territories doesn't. In some parts of Euskadi and Catalonia any such sentiments are about as welcome as a damp fart.
Democracy.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Spain, twinned with Turkey.

 

[Anudder Oik]

These are selected quotes from Faveledo where he spouts vitriol against Catalans in general, broad hateful strokes, one after the other, hidden in pretended interest about independence while claiming he supports their cause. I think that at heart he hates Catalans and is making broad prejudiced assumptions about them, based on ignorance and hate. He often quotes shit ultra right wing media like Antena3 or El Pais as facts. Take a look.

You really are a Catalan now aren't you? The same kind of snobbishness that led to the ex-president of the parlament getting shit every time he made a tiny mistake in Catalan and the "go home!" taunts to Inés Arrimidas in parliament sessions themselves. I don't like her politics but why on earth should she get that thrown at her?

Yes to independence, no to Catalan snobbery and the more pernicious elements of the independence movement's messages.

Your ridiculous idealisation of Catalans and Catalunya, as a paradise where "soft, comfortable people" cheer each other on teary-eyed from balconies in the pursuit of of the forthcoming republic. Your total denial of the snobbery that Catalans hold toward people from other regions.

Ironic that Catalans consider Andaluces so lazy,

it's well and truly out there and doesn't take long before it gets spouted out in the street or in a bar. "In Andalusia it's just fiesta and siesta." I heard it from the mouthes of Catalans in so many classes.

In Catalonia there is a bitterness held by many towards those in the South.

 

[Anudder Oik]

For information on what is happening in Catalonia you can follow this Twitter account:

Help Catalonia (@CataloniaHelp2) on Twitter

 

[Anudder Oik]

Another dozen catalan secondary school teachers, all from the same school this time, have been dragged in front of a judge accused of "hate crimes" for debating in class what happened on the 1st of october in Catalonia.

Solidaritat amb el professorat d’El Palau de Sant Andreu de la Barca — Informació i notícies sobre tot el que passa al Baix Llobregat i l'Hospitalet del Llobregat

 

[Anudder Oik]

 

[Favelado]

These are selected quotes from Faveledo where he spouts vitriol against Catalans in general, broad hateful strokes, one after the other, hidden in pretended interest about independence while claiming he supports their cause. I think that at heart he hates Catalans and is making broad prejudiced assumptions about them, based on ignorance and hate. He often quotes shit ultra right wing media like Antena3 or El Pais as facts. Take a look.

Yeah well done. I do support Catalan independence if that's what a majority of the population there want. I am critical of Catalans. I am supportive of them too. They have good traits. They have bad ones. I don't hate them at all. I can filter out your posts to make you look mental too. Easy.

I don't think that the posts you quoted are untrue and neither do you. Do you?

 

[Favelado]

Actually, all of the quotes deal with the topic of one particular trait, that of prejudice towards Andaluzes. Are you saying that stereotype doesn't exist in Catalonia? Because it's absolute bollocks to say it doesn't.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Actually, all of the quotes deal with the topic of one particular trait, that of prejudice towards Andaluzes. Are you saying that stereotype doesn't exist in Catalonia? Because it's absolute bollocks to say it doesn't.

In over 20 years of living within two different large extended catalan families I have to say I have never heard it. I heard it recently from a woman who described herself as an anarchist but didn't take it seriously.

I think it is really out of place on this thread. If anyone is to be critisized with tonnes of proof, it's the cultural fascism and aggression of the spanish nationalists and the weak silent champagne left in the rest of Spain.

What is more, it is the Catalans who always show the most solidarity with other parts of Spain in the struggles there, take the Murcia AVE wall protests for example. Millions of people gathered on the streets of Barcelona when there were the Jihadist bombs in Madrid, millions. The same cannot be said for Madrid when the jihadists attacked in the Ramblas more recently, I think it was a few hundred who turned out. I wonder why.

 

[Favelado]

We just disagree then. You never admit anything bad about Catalans. You take advantage of the fact that the bleeding obvious to anyone who is in Catalonia/Spain, can't be refuted on a UK message board by those who aren't.

You think Spanish people genuinely hate Catalans. You think I hate Catalans. You think that Andalusians are migrants (they aren't but you are). All nationalists are Jeremy Kyle "knuckle-draggers". You have written some nasty things about ordinary people.

I don't think that the smaller protests in Madrid after the Barcelona attack were, again as always, because madrileños hate Catalans. I think it's because it was an iteration of a type of attack we'd seen before across Europe, and had a much lower death toll. The Atocha bombings were the worst terrorist attack on European soil, and were a massive surprise. The van attack on Las Ramblas was disgusting, but much less shocking. I don't think the population turned on the TV and thought "Fuck Barcelona, they had it coming." This is not what the people in the city I live in are like, and frankly shame on you for suggesting they are.

Outside of your propaganda bubble, I'm not sure you have much idea about Spaniards at all. You seem to have been brainwashed to the point where you are only able to spout the most extreme nationalist rhetoric. Any admission of corruption in Catalonia, Catalan prejudices, right-wing tendencies, statistics about feelings amongst the Catalan population, the views of non-independentistas - they count for nothing. It's only the 48% who are right, who are informed, who are intelligent, and who are Catalan.

I've tried to make my position clear plenty of times.

We need an end to the evil PP government we have now. I would like Spain to be a republic one day. I am not right-wing.

Catalan political prisoners are just that - political prisoners.

Article 155 should be rescinded.

Poilice brutality is disgusting.

I would like increased autonomy for Catalonia, and a legal referendum. In the event of a majority in a referendum for independence I think it would be a good thing. I would worry about Brexit-style 52-48 result either way because of the implications for continued division it would bring. A resounding victory for independentistas would be good, or the other way, but as much consensus as possible. I would be sad if Catalonia went but it doesn't matter how I feel.


Good luck with your republic. Just hope it isn't people like you who end up running it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just hope it isn't people like you who end up running it.

yeh, ao couldn't run a bath

 

[Favelado]

yeh, ao couldn't run a bath

I don't think there's any need for that either really. His is perhaps the right cause, but the wrong approach.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't think there's any need for that either really. His is perhaps the right cause, but the wrong approach.

anudder oik is something of an enthusiast who refuses to accept the blindingly obvious until it is thrust down his throat, as we see on this thread and on other discussions such as his repeated refusal to see there was something dodgy about tim pool, insisting that anyone who disagreed with him was a fascist. his critical faculties are perhaps best described as underdeveloped. yeh there's something to be said for catalan independence: but i don't believe ao is the man to say it.

 

[Anudder Oik]

All nationalists are Jeremy Kyle "knuckle-draggers". You have written some nasty things about ordinary people.

Can you actually quote where I have said nasty things about ordinary people?

I don't think there is anything ordinary about the "a por elloooss" "Yo soy españool, español, español", crowd. The people who waved flags and adopted fascist chants while marching in their thousands to pay homage at police stations in order to thank the police for the violence they perpetrated on the 1st of october are not "ordinary". Those people, literally hundreds of thousands of them, make up a large number of the spanish nationalists in Catalonia who reject catalan culture and its language.

Things are calmer now, but a few weeks ago I saw acts of hatred on a daily basis, in the supermarket, in the street, on the train, all carried out by arrogant "Españolistas" showing their intolerance to Catalans in their own territory.

Just before christmas an españolista patrol consisting of thirty people were out cutting down the yellow political prisoner ribbons in a seaside town. They came across a thirteen year old girl putting up ribbons so threatened her with a stanley knife. When they were identified by police they turned out to be a mixture of "ordinary people accompanied by a councillor for Ciutadans and one from PP. Nice people.

 

[Anudder Oik]

A councillor from Ciutadans uploaded a video of Franco's visit to the town where she is now a politician. Lovely "ordinary" person she is. ironically, she is also from a group called "Catalan civil cohabitation". A typical "Españolista, catalan hating fascist front.

Una regidora de Cs comparteix un vídeo de Franco

 

[Anudder Oik]

Pablo Iglesias Thinks There Is an Alternative

A corrective to some of the, err, more spirited Catalan Nationalist posts on here...

It's not really a corrective of anything. PI is not really saying anything there. Does he propose anything? Whan was the last time Podemos mobilized it's base?

 

[J Ed]

Ciudadanos polling better than any other party in the generals. Bizarre.

 

[JuanTwoThree]

I don't think there is anything ordinary about the "a por elloooss" "Yo soy españool, español, español", crowd. The people who waved flags and adopted fascist chants while marching in their thousands to pay homage at police stations in order to thank the police for the violence they perpetrated on the 1st of october are not "ordinary". Those people, literally hundreds of thousands of them, make up a large number of the spanish nationalists in Catalonia who reject catalan culture and its language.

Things are calmer now, but a few weeks ago I saw acts of hatred on a daily basis, in the supermarket, in the street, on the train, all carried out by arrogant "Españolistas" showing their intolerance to Catalans in their own territory.

You give the impression that these people are not ordinary but at the same time admit that they number in the hundreds of thousands. I'm afraid it's depressingly ordinary that a large proportion of Iberian society is like that. In the same way you practise a kind of double-think that says that unionists who live in Catalonia are not Catalan, because they don't see themselves as such? The way I see it, one doesn't get to choose.

Leaving aside the protesters who were bussed in or made their way to Catalonia, the rest are from there.

A parallel would be my posh relatives who were born in Wales, and whose ancestors were born there too. They say 'I don't consider myself Welsh'. Well, they are.

Otherwise it's tantamount to saying:

"So who gets to decide the statehood of the country?"

"Well obviously only the people who want it. The rest are just living among them"

It's a reductionist analysis but it's something I catch a whiff of in your words.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Ciudadanos polling better than any other party in the generals. Bizarre.

It's not bizarre in the context of the current swell of popular right wing nationalism (provoked by the catalans according to pablo iglesias) coupled with a manipulative media that has never described the politics or origins of Ciutadans. People have been led to believe that they are something new, liberal, social, when in fact they are exactly the same or even worse than the PP. Founding members have included former PP and even Falange. It's the PP in a new guise.

 

[Anudder Oik]

you practise a kind of double-think that says that unionists who live in Catalonia are not Catalan, because they don't see themselves as such? The way I see it, one doesn't get to choose.

The majortiy of the unionists living in Catalonia see themselves as spanish and relate emotionally to their or their parents place of origin outside of Catalonia. A young person I spoke to recently, who was born here and speaks catalan, told me she was against independence because she has cousins in Almeria and would feel "separated" from them. Her parents don't speak catalan and voted Ciutadans because they believe ciutadans "will invest in hospitals"

The only political ambition that ciutadans has been clear about is their intention to "cleanse" the catalan education system by promoting a greater use of castillian.

There are many satalite towns where the locals reject catalan culture and use spanish as the main language spoken. Instead of the human castle tradition you will find Flamenco dancing and the "Feria de abril". The equivalent would be Morris dancing clubs in Aberdeen run by people who are uninterested or even hostile to anything cultural that was actually developed in Scotland by its original people.

There is a colonial-like unwillingness among a majority of spanish people who have settled here to accept catalan society as it is and have tried to mold it to something that it isn't.

I won't go into the aggressiveness that goes with this.