Nobody has argued that either so it's another straw man. I said it led to them changing tact from march and grow to a change of image and going down the electoral route. They pretty much gave up with the paper sales, rights for whites demos etc etc.
Your vote for the 2015 General Election
- Thread starter gareth taylor
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Nobody has argued that either so it's another straw man. I said it led to them changing tact from march and grow to a change of image and going down the electoral route. They pretty much gave up with the paper sales, rights for whites demos etc etc.
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
No, is there a correlation which can be used to show that the one influenced the other?
Others on here now seem to be agreeing that there isn't.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Drivel.
I've never seen anyone go into reverse gear so fast. Keep digging, pal.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I think you really should have a look. Actually, maybe you should have done that rather earlier.
What there is, is evidence that the inability to organise, to project your views, to establish a path from interested to involved, from inactive to supporter,to voter, to establish credibility and so electoral support was significantly effected by the sort of physical force fascism that you reject. This was recogonised by the far right itself. If they can see it and you can't i have to wonder what the motivation behind your denial is.
bi0boy
Power User
I'm not officially in a marginal as the result in 2010 wasn't too close, but this time around the incumbent is 11/10 on and the challenger evens, so it's likely to be a marginal from 2015 onwards.
Lots of stuff through the letterbox and a whole series of local hustings so it's quite exciting (well in a psephological kind of way - it's not like the result will make much of a difference either way).
Lots of stuff through the letterbox and a whole series of local hustings so it's quite exciting (well in a psephological kind of way - it's not like the result will make much of a difference either way).
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Which party is challenging them?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
My parents have a Lib-Dem MP (Norman Lamb) in mainly-Tory Norfolk. Apparently the local Tories are pretty much "carpet-bombing" the towns and villages with flyers and canvassing, and have been out on-the-knock since November, so obviously think they have a chance of taking the seat. They obviously believe that at least in the coastal towns and villages, people have forgotten who nixed extra flood defences, and that Lamb increased his majority (to about 11,000) at the last GE.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Given the amount of Labour/soft left voters who've been voting LD to keep the Tories out for a while, and probably won't anymore, surely they'd have a decent shout at taking it though? Even if Lamb's majority is 11,000?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
From what I can make out from relatives, the previous Tory MP (David Prior), as well as the constituency association, pretty much took the Tory vote for granted, and were shit at local council level too, so they're going to have to work especially-hard to overcome the fact that Lamb and his constituency workers have garnered a great deal of respect from locals for the amount of grass-roots constituency work they get done successfully - for example; after a complaint from my dad (penned by me, signed by him
), Lamb badgered North Norfolk Council about their "Blue Badge" policy hard enough that they revised their (over-strict) criteria downward, to a level that most other local authorities operated. In a constituency with almost as high a population of seniors with mobility impairments as Eastbourne or Bournemouth, that buys a LOT of goodwill. 
bi0boy
Power User
Extremely dull Labour candidate challenging a very active LibDem who is a good match for the seat (a cycling PhD scientist in Cambridge). Labour did well in the locals last year though so have plenty of enthusiastic activists, but then the LibDems have always had that here.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
My MP will be Meg Hillier. It would still be Meg Hillier if she stood in front of the town hall sacrificing babies on polling day. Green's came 2nd in most of the council wards last election, so they might hope to nick 2nd spot.
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
What “evidence”? Show me some. All we’ve had so far is speculation, opinion and a publicity page for a book about AFA written by ‘those who were on the front line’. So hardly an independent or impartial analysis.
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
Says someone in a hole waving a shovel.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Okay, if you want 'impartial' evidence, try reading stuff by Nigel Copsey. He's not exactly a fan of Antifa tactics, but he recognises their role on changing the BNP - in effect, forcing them to abandon the 'march and grow' tactic.
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
Okay, thanks Wilf.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yes, and there's a small summary of the sort of approach and recognition of on-the-ground facts that he and (and others) take of that period here:
This is a far cry from the late 1990s and early 2000s, when fascist politics seemed far less of a threat than it had been previously. After decades of often bloody street-based struggle, the numerically and tactically superior left – epitomised by the physical, confrontational tactics of Anti-Fascist Action (AFA) and the Asian Youth Movements (AYMs), alongside the larger broad-based liberal socialist Anti-Nazi League (ANL) – finally appeared to have won. In the case of the militant anti-fascists (who, although smaller than the ANL, were popular and well-organised), physical combat was the watchword of these battles for territorial control of key public spaces (e.g. Lux, 2006; Ramamurthy, 2006). This saw the proliferation of localised fascist and anti-fascist groups vying for the control of communities, streets, neighbourhoods and – those bastions of British working class social and political life – pubs (Bullstreet, 2001). As one AFA activist argued, ‘only when they [the fascists] are too terrified to work in the estates and walk the streets can anti-fascists be satisfied’ (see Martell, 1996: 14).
The largest fascist grouping of the era, the National Front (NF), had for many years an explicit spatial strategy of ‘march and grow’ (Lux, 2006). A large and visible street presence, argued the NF, was a necessary precursor to growth and greater control in key strategic territories. However, as the NF branched increasingly into electoral politics in the 1980s, the two-pronged spatial configuration of street and electoral politics became increasingly untenable. The visible presence of aggressive, badly-organised and anti-social young men (as they usually were) did not correlate with the perceived ‘respectability’ of electoral politics. This, combined with sophisticated tactics of surveillance, infiltration and confrontation enacted by anti-fascists, led to bitter in-fighting, fragmentation and massive shrinking of the NF and similar groups such as the British Movement. The failure of street-based fascism was largely rooted in this problematic strategy that sought to combine street control with electoralism, combined with the effective counter-strategies of the left. With the far-right in collapse, the left, it seemed, had won a major victory.
(Never seen that piece before and just noticed it uses an article me and Paul m/s wrote years ago - as a proper indented quote as well)
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Projecting, Andrew? That's not like you at all.
I'm not the one in the hole, matey.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
What happened to the BNP street strategy? What were the responses to their electoral turn?
Physical confrontation had and has its place when the far right seeks to physically dominate public spaces. Why would you try to diminish the importance of that element of anti-fascism?
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Because to him it was just yobboes rucking.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Ahh yobboes rucking... those happy days of Giles cartoons and social order.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Yes, when life was as simple as could be.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
One bonus in the upcoming election seems to be that the far right have virtually disappeared. I should imagine that because this is a tight election, people are going to vote for a candidate with a chance of winning.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I should imagine it's cos the BNP have imploded and they're all voting UKIP. It isn't like the conditions that create the far right, or the bourgeois parties that use racism and nationalism to divide us (like Labour who I see you've decided to vote for) have gone away.
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
Because I see no evidence that it was important. I’m looking for impartial analysis and evidence that ‘rucking’ and ‘control of the streets’ were significant factors in the countrywide collapse of BNP and NF voter support.
Nigel Copsey’s ‘Varieties of Anti Fascism’ was suggested…. but at £70 a copy it'll have to wait.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Morning vicar.
His book on the Bnp was suggested not varieties of anti fascism and an academic article containing a precise of his views on the period was linked to. So it's us that are waiting, not you.
His book on the Bnp was suggested not varieties of anti fascism and an academic article containing a precise of his views on the period was linked to. So it's us that are waiting, not you.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
And on what do you base this assertion? Have you been living out in the Kuiper Belt for the last 25+ years? Have you not heard of 'Third Positionism'? If you haven't, then there's nothing that any of us can do for you. You are destined to dwell forever in the darkness of your wilful ignorance.
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ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
They've not disappeared, they're just off the electoral radar for a while, until a "new direction" is decided on, and bearing in mind that parts of the far right have no interest in electoral politics.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Over and over and over again.
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