Your vote for the 2015 General Election
- Thread starter gareth taylor
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SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I've got Diane Abbott
.
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
I mentioned my scars (on scalp and right knee) because they were gotten during rucks on demos. I mentioned them after you'd given it the biggun about how you'd been "opposing the far right since the seventies", as if that somehow made you stand out from a crowd in the '70s (maybe it did in Hicksville, but not round here in this part of Southwest London). Interesting that I'm supposed to take your claims on trust, but that you have licence to accuse me of either bending the truth or boasting.
And I haven't claimed that people only vote Green or Labour to salve their consciences. I said that some people do.
Still, expecting accuracy from you is a bit much, isn't it?
You make a lot of assumptions don’t you? I lived in Peckham, New Cross and then East Ham in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. Parts of Southwest London always looked like ‘Hicksville’ to me. It was always obvious that the dickheads who got involved in ‘rucks’ at protests contributed nothing and did more harm than good.
As for ‘salving my conscience’, why does that apply particularly to me and not all Green and Labour voters?
So, in 'your view' militant anti-fascism was ineffective and it was whatever soppy crap you were doing that drove the far right from the streets of the UK? If so, you really are fucking clueless.
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
I've got Diane Abbott
You're lucky, I'd dream of having Diane Abbott as our MP. We have bland tory yes boy Mark 'two homes' Prisk as ours. Last time he hardly bothered campaigning and still got over half the total vote.
I usually vote for whoever looks like they might have the best chance of unseating him, the last time that nearly happened was in 1997 when Labour nearly got him. But this time I'll probably vote Green simply because a high turnout for them nationally would result in a strong message to the next government about the need for more action on climate change.
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
Yes, of course it was.
Why did the BNP stop marching then?
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
Their support collapsed because they got 'thumped' at the ballot box in 2010. You don't honestly think it was because a handful of wallies used to wade in fists first now and again do you!??
Their support collapsed because they got 'thumped' at the ballot box in 2010. You don't honestly think it was because a handful of wallies used to wade in fists first now and again do you!??
Was it 2010 then that they stopped with the street marches? That's your answer?
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
I don't know or even give a shit when their 'street marches' stopped, why do you think their support collapsed?
We were talking about anti-fascism. You've now changed the subject to something else. For obvious reasons.
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
You brought up the BNP, not me. I was talking about Panda's silly boast about his 'scars' from 'rucking' with the far right in Southwest London. Perhaps it was he who brought about the collapse of the BNP....
You said people rucking (in the context of anti-fascsim, which was what was being discussed) did more harm than good. Can you provide any kind of evidence to back that up?
Is that the scab one?
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
Panda brought up his 'scars' and 'rucks' in the context of opposing the far right, so I'd say it was up to him to explain how they helped defeat the BNP etc, wouldn't you?
starfish
No dialogue. Just plot.
I dont know. Its the one that got arrested for protesting about the fracking site at Balcombe. Its either her or i wont bother or spoil my vote.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Start's off explaining how it's all obvious to him, because of his superior intelligence.
But then suddenly he doesn't know or care.
AH - it's possible you don't realise this, but you're an ignorant cunt.
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
It was obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense that some in the BNP enjoyed a 'ruck' themselves, but more importantly it gave the likes of Griffin the opportunity to point out to their potential voters that the BNP were being victimised and that their opposition were violent thugs.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
The timeline of what actually happened doesn't marry with what you're saying unfortunately.
Griffin went the electoral route with a change of image after they'd been beaten from the street.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I think opponents of militant anti-fash have it so wrong in presenting as people being 'up for a ruck'. It's not so much that the fash were kicked off the streets, though that did happen as part of a bigger picture. It's that their confidence was dented, their potential for growth was hit. Physical force antifascism has always had a wider political strategy and the physical force was something that led to the political defeat of the BNP.
red & green
Well-Known Member
If I do - none of the above but I probably wont
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Suppose the only circumstances I could see myself voting would be for some kind of save the local hospital type candidate. In some thought experiment, if it was a marginal where a far left/anti-cuts candidate had a chance of winning, I'd probably vote - but in the same thought experiment, if it was Lab v Con marginal I wouldn't (what would be the point). As none of that is in play, I won't be voting.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
What you mean is that when the NF/BNP/identikit bonehead wankers charged and their copper mates either stepped aside or shielded them, you ran, while a minority of us fought a rearguard so you could get away.
It doesn't apply particularly to you. It applies to some Green and Labour voters, not all Green and Labour voters, as you mistakenly claimed I'd stated.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It does rather fly in the face of what actually happened,which is that until Griffin's "turn to electoral politics", the hard right continued with street protests and got "closed down" whenever they tried it - often just by the perception that anti-fascists would be there to block them.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Their support collapsed because they got 'thumped' at the ballot box in 2010. You don't honestly think it was because a handful of wallies used to wade in fists first now and again do you!??
Obviously the 30+ years prior to 2010, when militant anti-fascists were active, were immaterial.
As for "waded in fists first", I very rarely saw anti-fascists start aggro at demos. Your recollection may be different, but then as you were probably legging it while they stopped the fascists attacking you, you wouldn't have seen anything, would you?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Do yourself a favour. Do some research on the constituencies where the BNP "faces" stood. Look at the canvassing operations that took place there. In every constituency where a BNP "face" stood, and most plainly and publicly in Barking & Dagenham, those constituencies were blanket-bombed in the week before the election by a coalition of trade union members, UAF and HnH, Labour and non-aligned anti-fascists pushing an anti-BNP ticket. In most of those constituencies, the vote was higher than average. Do you know what that means? It means that their support hadn't collapsed, it'd been overwhelmed. BNP support and membership didn't start to fall off until late 2011/early 2012, after Griffin's financial chickens came home to roost.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Your argument only works if you're entirely unaware of the history of the BNP, and of the fact that from the early '90s on the BNP progressively withdrew from their "street soldier" strategy, and adopted an electoral one instead, causing militant anti-fascists to scale down their own operations. The change of BNP strategy allowed Griffin to siphon off his boneheads away from the BNP. The BNP had very little opportunity to play the victim, because militant anti-fascists were more interested in heckling the self-styled "democrat" than feeding his martyrdom complex.
You really are absolutely clueless.
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