bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Yeah, sorry about wanting to change the world. I know I can't and I'm just detaining Lo Siento from greater things.
Your vote for the 2015 General Election
- Thread starter gareth taylor
- Start date
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
You dont wanna change the world, you wanna vote Labour because you think this is the best things can be,, away with yer sob story!
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
I think it's shit really but am not persuaded by Lo Siento's honey tongue. This is what we've got. It's a long way from ideal and anyone who cares can work towards changing it. Meanwhile we've got shit+1 or shit+2: who are you going to vote for?
So who do I vote for? It'll either be for someone without a cat in hell's chance of getting in, so the same as not voting, or for thr war mongers just to keep the bashers of the vulnerable out. But there's no guarantee that the war mongers will reverse austerity.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Precisely. My not voting is not some great political statement it's just a result of the fact that I can't be bother to do it (even if I was allowed). But equally making a mark on a piece of paper isn't political either.
I've no ideological opposition to voting, it's just that IMO nine times out of ten it's pretty much a waste of time and people are better putting their effort into the areas where the odds might not be so stacked against us.
They're not looking for a new England,
newbie
undisambiguated
oh I wrote it like that quite deliberately, quoting "Voting is pointless. If you're anti-capitalist you're voting for capitalism, end of."
Voting is a purely personal act, an X or not, or a penis. No-one else knows. So there is no way to use the act of voting or not to express an opinion on capitalism to anybody else, except counting the "pointless" votes for some fringe candidates. If I (and I made it plain I was talking about my own personal view, not anybody elses) were to be guided by the "end of" statement I would feel I was doing it for entirely self indulgent reasons. Doing it for myself and myself alone, because imv it's plainly not for anyone else.
Whereas, millions of others are voting to keep the tories out and to me that matters much, much more. In my head voting against the tory is not a symbolic act no-one else can possibly recognise, it's a cold hard fact.
Obviously, anyone else can characterise my principle as equally self indulgent, given that it's a safe seat, whoever I vote for won't win and that I go in to the polling booth knowing full well that my own personal vote doesn't matter.
I'm quite prepared to believe that the other 40 million or so registered voters think about it all entirely differently, in the privacy of their own heads, as they come to their own personal decision about voting. How many of them, and in particular of non/spoil voters, are guided by that "end of" statement is wholly unknown, as it must be. For all I, or anyone else, know there could be 30 million people taking a principled stand against capitalism as they do or don't make their mark, each of them having thought it through in a way completely different to me. There's absolutely no way of knowing.
Only the X's matter.
newbie
undisambiguated
it's an election, a new England isn't on offer, just the opportunity to affect the balance of power in the HoC
newbie
undisambiguated
dunno, I'm not, you can
Whooooosh.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you say no one else knows. but they do, or can find out, as your ballot paper has a number whoch is recorded by your name
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yeah, that's right; pop into a thread, tell posters their electoral decision(s) have no meaning and then fuck off. Impressive.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
I've often wondered if that actually happens.
andysays
Love and solidarity
The two bits I've highlighted are contradictory, IMO.
Given that no one else knows why you made the mark of your ballot paper that you did, it's impossible to reckon up the number of anti-Tory (or anti-anything else) votes in any meaningful way.
The way the system works, you only have the option of voting for a particular candidate - maybe it would be interesting if you had the option of voting against a particular candidate or party instead, but realistically that's not going to happen, so it's not worth pretending any such option exists.
When you vote, you explicitly vote for a particular candidate, but you also vote implicitly for the system as it exists, thus helping to legitimise it, as I mentioned above.
newbie
undisambiguated
agreed. the state can find out how an individual voted, if they're prepared to put enough effort in. I've never heard of them publicising the results though, so even if voting is tracked, it's still private from the rest of the population, which is what we're talking about.
andysays
Love and solidarity
And there's a whole section of Special Branch responsible for collating ballot papers and putting the names of everyone who ever drew a spunking cock on a database.
You have been warned...
newbie
undisambiguated
shrug. I don't spend all my time on urban, and had an opportunity for a lazy day. I'm off out in a bit and then won't get back here for some hours or maybe days. Are part time posters a problem to you?
Don't encourage him.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Back already it seems. Still not prepared to justify calling decisions to spoil/no vote as meaningless. "Shrug"
newbie
undisambiguated
yep, fair play, that's true. But it's commonplace to do so, PM did exactly that yesterday, because although the political meaning is debatable, the numbers aren't..
newbie
undisambiguated
C66 was chiding me for spending yesterday doing exactly that. If you think there's a meaning to spoilt/non-votes then you spell that meaning out, showing how it has ever made the slightest bit of difference to anyone or anything.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
But you're back in that corner implying that 'difference' can only be effected via parliamentary democracy. You made the claim; back it up.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Maybe you do need a break; that's gibberish.
newbie
undisambiguated
I've said nothing of the sort. ever.
I've said there a ten minute or so period every few years where each of us has an opportunity to make a mark on a bit of paper. And I've discussed that mark, nothing else.
Making or not making that mark has no bearing whatsoever on any other way of 'making a difference' (did I really use that phrase?). I've said this repeatedly.
I've said there a ten minute or so period every few years where each of us has an opportunity to make a mark on a bit of paper. And I've discussed that mark, nothing else.
Making or not making that mark has no bearing whatsoever on any other way of 'making a difference' (did I really use that phrase?). I've said this repeatedly.
newbie
undisambiguated
I'll try again then
Although "it's impossible to reckon up the number of anti-Tory (or anti-anything else) votes in any meaningful way", PM did exactly that yesterday, because although the political meaning is debatable, the numbers aren't..
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
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