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Winter Olympics: Putin cautions gay visitors to Sochi

they dont need to wait till 2022. The Dubai open is on every year . They have penalties for homosexuality ranging from death, chemical castration , imprisonment and deportation . Unlike in Russia were its not even remotely against the law to be gay. And theres not a fucking peep out of anyone . All the GCC countries have even agreed to some weird anti gay airport screening too .
Im not sure as to whether this hypocrisy is down to anti Russian prejudice, oil money or some convoluted privilege checking . But its pretty glaring .

There are a few things going on of which hypocrisy is one but not the only one.

Russia, as you point out, has both officially and in practice some degree of space in which gay people can go about their lives (the size of the space obviously varies greatly depending on your wealth and exact location among other things). Efforts are currently afoot to encroach into that space, which was narrow to start with, and it is this movement, as much as the absolute situation, that is producing the current international protest. Also, Russia pretends to be a democracy and Putin tries to pretend to be tolerant by saying he's fine with gays as long as they stay clear of kids. By contrast, Gulf states are perceived as having zero space for the existence of homosexuality, and Gulf Arab leaders are perceived as having absolutely no need or desire to make any attempt to hide their extreme homophobia. Putin will say 'keep them away from kids', but the Emir will say 'string 'em up' (or so we assume). Russia covers itself in a thin shroud of liberal respectability that makes protest seem potentially effective. The Gulf wears its homophobic (and more generally, authoritarian) heart on its sleeve, and that is a much more difficult position to protest against.

Its interesting to wonder how political and economic relations colour our perception in the West of human rights issues in different parts of the world. Russia is also a resource-rich country and one whose authoritarianism the West often plays down in order to ease political and economic relations - but western criticism of Russian human rights is not by any means unheard of, whether because the West needs a stick with which to periodically keep Russian ascendency in check (probably the motivation of governments), or because Russia is seen as having sufficient civil society for HR agendas to gain traction (hopefully to motivation for Western HR groups' work in Russia). By contrast, you almost NEVER hear Western criticism of HR in the Gulf, and one must suppose that because Western governments don't see it as a potential upsetter of Western hegemony (unlike Russia), there need be no letup in the flattery and blind eye-turning in that direction. And for HR groups, there is much less by way of grassroots civil society for them to latch on to, both because the extent of authoritarianism, the success with which is uses religion and regional sectarian tensions to legitimise itself, and the youngness of the society.
 
I'd say that it'd be inaccurate to say that Russia is pretending to be a democracy, and that needs to be defined and understood with a little more specificity. And it also might be fruitful to look at what they understand it to be without making condescending assumptions. And 'liberal respectability' might well be something I disagree with, although understood differently and for other reasons than Putin.

There's been an assertion of elite illiberal traditions and nationalism, and openness about that. No shrouds of respectability. And for who and on what terms? Us? Not a single fuck will be given. It's not necessarily about finding favour with 'westerners,' but in some ways setting apart. Within that, though, there's been plenty of cliched old Russian Tradition talk which, whatever the political colouration, continuity can be seen more so than fundamental change. Unpicking that and making some sense of contemporary Russian society, or how that society is ruled, is not easy.

Putin is certainly a liberal economically, and with the combination of an authoritarian state change has been much more vicious (for ordinary people) than we've experienced it here. And I'm not talking about the 1990s, but from early in the last decade and the arrival of some measure of stability via Putin's government/s.

The Russia of today isn't the kind of society I want to live in by way.
 
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Vancouver councillor dancing at Sochi gay bar:

FISHER-SOCHI-GAY-BAR_30119491.jpg


http://www.canada.com/olympics/commentary/party-runs-into-the-wee-hours-at-sochis-gay-cabaret
 
i've got a few mates working on the games in Sochi, they've been saying working conditions range from dire to 'fucking lethal'
 
Nice one, Google.

olydood.png


Google's brilliant, politically charged Olympics doodle
Google's home page honors the arrival of the Winter Olympics in Sochi. It also makes a deliberate point about human rights, using the International Olympics Committee's own words...

Yes, there are the requisite images of various winter sports. But then consider the colored background. Why, aren't those the colors of the rainbow, seen by many as the colors of the LGBT movement?

There's more. Beneath the images is a quote from the Olympic Charter.

It reads: "The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practicing sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play."

It would be hard not to imagine that this quote is a direct response to some of the anti-gay rhetoric emerging from Russia. And it's tastefully done.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-5...olympics-doodle/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title
 
Have a look at the recently arrested rich kid thug and bully Tesak's Occupy Paedophilia internet video 'movement' (experience from his Format 18 days) to see what J Ed has talked about.
Did anyone watch Channel 4's 'Hunted'? 'Occupy Paedophilia' is featured - and it becomes clear that it's really gay people, not paedophiles, who are being hunted. Lured to flats, intimidated, beaten up, in some cases tortured, this is all filmed - and the films put on the Internet so the victims may lose their jobs and be subject to further violence and intimidation. Very very nasty stuff.
 
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Unfortunately backward societies will continue to behave in backward ways until taught otherwise

Read this article by Jeremy Seabrook, written in 2004:
Comment
It's not natural
The developing world's homophobia is a legacy of colonial rule
The cancellation of Jamaican reggae artist Beenie Man's concert at east London's Ocean Club because of "concerns for public safety", in view of lyrics inciting attacks on gay men, raises once more the tangled relationship between homophobia and the legacy of colonialism.
In Jamaica, the offences of buggery and gross indecency were framed in the Offences Against the Person Act of 1864, derived from the English Act of 1861. The wording is chilling: "Whoever shall be convicted of the abominable crime of buggery, committed either with mankind or an animal, shall be liable to be imprisoned and kept to hard labour for a term not exceeding 10 years."

When the constitution for the newly independent territories of Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago and Barbados was drawn up in 1962, its architects honoured their former rulers by preserving colonial values which would themselves be abolished in Britain within five years. These laws had their roots in Victorian morality, but they were embraced enthusiastically by the black nationalist middle class; and, like many illiberal attitudes in the world, these filtered through society, and were transmuted into a virulent machismo among the poor; a consequence, perhaps, of people having been stripped of everything else, including the promises of a better life after independence. It is out of this culture, fortified by contemporary evangelical Christianity, that the culture of music-driven homophobia has grown.

Jamaica, of course, is far from the only country coming to terms with the imperial bequest of hatred of same-sex relationships. The Naz Foundation, which works on Aids prevention in India, recently challenged the constitutionality of Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code. This forbids "sexual acts against the order of nature". The response of the central government was that homosexuality cannot be legalised in India as the society disapproves of such behaviour. "The purpose of Section 377 is to provide a healthy environment in the society by criminalising unnatural sexual activities against the order of nature."

In fact, such laws were often inspired by imperial anxieties about homosocial cultures among their subordinate peoples. Even today, it is common for westerners, observing young men holding hands, and mistaking the meaning of this non-sexualised touching, to marvel at the "openness" of gay relationships in India.

Colonial laws still stand in many other countries, too. Indeed, it is clear the British had an off-the-peg penal code, since in Malaysia the same law is also called Section 377. The only difference is that in India it is almost never used, whereas in Malaysia it was employed recently, and to great effect, against the former deputy premier, Anwar Ibrahim.

In Africa, the number of the article varies, but the wording of the offence is virtually identical. In Zambia "carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature" is punishable; in Uganda "any person who has carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature is guilty of an offence and is liable to life imprisonment". The Nigerian Penal Code states that "any person who has carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature ... is liable to imprisonment for 14 years". So, too, in Botswana, in Zimbabwe, in Tanzania; but not in South Africa, which has one of the most progressive records in the world in legitimating homosexual relationships.

"Carnal knowledge" evokes missionaries shocked by bare breasts as they strove to bring decency to the wayward children of empire. The colonial legislation first named something which, although familiar in all societies, had not previously been cast in the terms in which the Victorians framed their own experience. "Carnal knowledge" sounds so much more portentous than the enjoyment of sexual relations.

Swahili has no equivalent for "homosexual" - although a word for feminised man exists, and the word basha indicates a male penetrative partner. Boy-wives were recognised in Zande, Arab/Bantu and Siwi cultures, often with family approval. The boy would later be married to a woman, the former "husband" paying the bride price. The anthropologist EE Evans-Pritchard's informants among the Zande of central Africa in the 1930s stated that men had sex with boys "because they liked them". Sometimes such relationships were said to occur "by accident", when people were sleeping; but as long as social fictions and propriety were maintained, these remained unspoken. "Carnal knowledge" and "the order of nature" sharply redefined customary, unnamed or marginal behaviours, and brought to bear upon them the blinding knowledge of their inherent sinfulness.

Same-sex love has had a highly significant place in Indian tradition, too. In most Indian languages there are words for feminised men ( kothis ) and for their partners ( giriyas or panthis ); they describe behaviour, not identity - what people do, not who they are. To label customary and complex relationships as "homosexuality", as colonial officials did, was the work of characteristic and arrogant reductionism; while the subsequent essentialising of identity by their enlightened descendants in the form of lesbian or gay man strikes even more violently against the multiple competing aspects of the human person in traditional societies.

The violent homophobia in Jamaica, which saw 16 men killed in prison in August 1997, because it was believed they were homosexual, the murder of the gay activist Brian Williamson last month, and the emergence of a popular culture whose principal characteristic seems to be to rid the world of "battyboys", is simply a more extreme example of a familiar cultural oddity, whereby colonised peoples often internalise and perpetuate values which pass away in the countries which originally imposed them; just as mid-Victorian leg-of-mutton sleeves still cover the bare shoulders of many African women, and as red tape is still used to bind up documents in Indian government offices. When the west revisits Africa or India, declaring that gays - not homosexuals - raise questions of human rights, who is to wonder if what they hear is the fundamentalist preachings from the mouths of local bishops fulminating in the frozen blood-curdling rhetoric of the early missionaries, or the urge, through pop culture, of distorted - and largely powerless - masculinity to kill "chi-chi men"?

The penitent imperialists have, by and large, revised their earlier repressive sexual attitudes. (Not exclusively so, as the case this week shows, of the guest house in Scotland which refused a double bed to two gay men.) We are confronted by voices from the grave, the far from still tongues of our long-deceased predecessors. And we do not know how to respond to them.

Work against oppression and violence has to rely to some degree on notions of "universal human rights", although these are as much a matter of faith to this age as the divine prohibitions on illicit carnal knowledge were to the age of empire. But even more important than this, there has to be a collaborative and equal labour between activists of both north and south. Since both our past colonialism and our present globalisation are inextricably bound up together, so the work of emancipation can only be achieved jointly.

· Jeremy Seabrook is working on a book about cross-cultural dialogue between Indian and western gay men.

comment@guardian.co.uk
You see, much of this virulent homophobia came from the English colonisers.
 
Did anyone watch Channel 4's 'Hunted'? 'Occup Paedophilia' is featured - and it becomes clear that it's really gay people, not paedophiles, who are being hunted. Lured to flats, intimidated, beaten up, in some cases tortured, this is all filmed - and the films put on the Internet so the victims may lose their jobs and be subject to further violence and intimidation. Very very nasty stuff.
A shocking and harrowing documentary :(
 
Tim Stevenson has met with IOC officials in Sochi about the future of gay rights at the Olympics:



Tim Stevenson is doing his best to rattle the cage of the Russian bear during his taxpayer-financed visit to Sochi.

Vancouver's openly gay deputy mayor raised issues of gay rights during a meeting with senior officials of the IOC.

Now Stevenson is asking for a sitdown with Sochi Mayor Anatoly Pakhomov, who famously claimed last month there are no gays in the Black Sea resort city.

"Not anymore," Stevenson said with a chuckle over the phone Wednesday from a city transformed into a fortress in advance of Friday's opening ceremonies.
The Russian government of Vladimir Putin provoked worldwide controversy with laws against "gay propaganda" in the run-up to the Winter Games.

Stevenson, representing Vancouver as the previous Winter Games host city, is pressing for meetings with Sochi organizers, the Russian Olympic Committee and with Pakhomov, who told the BBC last month homosexuality is "not accepted" in the city.

"I hope I could open his heart a little," Stevenson said. "I will say to him, 'I'm an openly gay man and I've been involved in the gay movement for 40 years.'

"I'd explain to him how homosexuality was illegal once in Canada and that 50 years ago I could have been thrown in jail. But attitudes change and our laws changed, too."

On Tuesday, Stevenson met with two senior IOC officials, including Jochen Farber, head of IOC president Thomas Bach's executive office.

"We hoped for a 10-to 15-minute meeting and it turned into a 90-minute discussion," Stevenson said. He said talks centred on Bach's promised Olympic Agenda 2020, which aims to renew IOC policies and practices.

"I came away convinced that human rights - including sexual orientation - is very much going to be a part of this review," said Stevenson, adding the IOC officials seemed "embarrassed" by Russia's anti-gay laws.

Stevenson reiterated to me he is in Sochi to talk to the mayor and any other Russian officials willing to meet him. They appear to know his phone number, and Stevenson is waiting for their call.

http://www.theprovince.com/life/Stevenson+meets+with+czars/9475031/story.html
 
A shocking and harrowing documentary :(

It made the point that Putin's anti 'gay propaganda' legislation is encouraging individuals and groups in Russia to perpetrate violent attacks on gay people, seemingly sanctioned by the police. The state has legitimized homophobia, in this case by linking homosexuality with paedophilia. :rolleyes:

Mind you, it's salutary to remember that less than 30 years ago, Britain passed similar legislation in the form of Section 28 - remember "promotion of homosexuality" and "pretended family relationships"?
 
I recall groups of young men 'queer' bashing in the 70's in Cardiff, and there are, sadly, still vicious and sometimes murderous attacks upon gay people in this country.
 


thanks for posting that Johnny. Pity though you seem to have preffered using the photo as a supposed in your face Putin by the Vancouver guy and completely ignored the articles content . Which points out the gay bar has been thriving in Sochi for the last ten years and has interviews with various drag artists and gay Russians decrying the various western countries hysteria and making clear the exercised western fuss meisters simply havent a clue what theyre talking about .

As a half-dozen drag queens put on their makeup, wigs, high heels and dresses in a crowded dressing room, one of the chatty stars of the cabaret’s extravaganza, Miss Zhuzha, dressed in black pumps and a skimpy black halter top, shouted above the din: “Problems. How? There are no problems. Not any problems. You can see for yourself.

“Cabaret Mayak has been working 10 years already. We are the first gay club that has lasted so long. We do not disturb anybody. Nobody disturbs us. And thank God.”

Miss Zhuzha’s views were echoed by Olga Childs, a lesbian visiting Sochi from Moscow who makes her home there and in Britain and the U.S.

“This is alarmism on the part of the West,” Childs said of the controversy over gay and lesbian rights. “They don’t quite understand the dynamics here. They take things at face value.

“Certainly horrible homophobia exists here, but it exists in Canada, too. My personal view is that there is not a serious problem in Russia with gay rights.

And thats by no means the first time weve heard this coming from within the Russian gay community itself . But maybe theyre wrong and the western commentators are right .
 
thanks for posting that Johnny. Pity though you seem to have preffered using the photo as a supposed in your face Putin by the Vancouver guy and completely ignored the articles content . .

I used that photo because it was the one accompanying the article in the Vancouver Province newspaper.
 
breaking news from Sochi Olympics,,,gay death toll still estimated to be around zero . Early days yet I suppose. Putin lulling them into false sense of security no doubt.
 
Nice one, Google.

olydood.png

Yeah, nice one from the USAs biggest commercial spy company passing on everyone in the worlds details to the CIA . Gay people most certainly have not been banned from competing in the winter Olympics as the inclusion of that quote from the Olympic charter gives the distinct and deliberate impression. Nor was it ever once contemplated or ever hinted at.

Its billionaire American spies doing a global act of US propaganda to deliberately misrepresent whats actually happening, in an attempt to embarass and undermine a geo political rival. Nothing more.

What next..Google... so committed to global human rights we constantly spy on the entire worlds gay people too.
 
I think you've been reading too many of those funny websites.

Trying to pretend that only people in tinfoil hats believe that there is a relationship between the large information companies and govt security services, isn't going to work. There's too much evidence to the contrary.

I agree that it's probably going too far to say that one company hands over everything to some agency. But some things at some times are being handed over to some agencies in some countries; or at least, these companies will be complicit with directives from agencies in some countries.
 
I thought the Google logo thing was a nice gesture, even if it was just for one day or the fact few searchers would connect the colour scheme with LGBT issues/rainbow flag. However, it did get widespread media coverage.
 
Trying to pretend that only people in tinfoil hats believe that there is a relationship between the large information companies and govt security services, isn't going to work. There's too much evidence to the contrary.
Read what he said. Carefully. Google does not and can not pass on "everyone in the worlds details to the CIA."
 
Gay people most certainly have not been banned from competing in the winter Olympics as the inclusion of that quote from the Olympic charter gives the distinct and deliberate impression. Nor was it ever once contemplated or ever hinted at...

All but the most obtuse would recognise that explicitly banning people from doing something is not the only way to discourage or prevent at least some of them from doing it
 
The point you're missing, is that it's specious to make conspiracy accusations against those who mention the fact that there has been cooperation between major information companies, and govt security agencies.
 
The point you're missing, is that it's specious to make conspiracy accusations against those who mention the fact that there has been cooperation between major information companies, and govt security agencies.

With respect, the point that you seem to be missing is that the suggestion that Google are passing on people's details to the CIA (whether it's all people or merely some), is just a distraction from the question of whether homophobia is a significant problem in Putin's Russia.

I'm not surprised it's been brought up, but you're not obliged to go along with it...
 
All but the most obtuse would recognise that explicitly banning people from doing something is not the only way to discourage or prevent at least some of them from doing it

so what are the athletes being discouraged from doing, exactly ? What are they being otherwise prevented from doing in Russia that they could do somewhere else ?

And how, even remotely, have the Russians undermined or impinged upon, never mind breached, the following
"The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practicing sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play."

The decision by Google to use that in an attack on Russia is a load of bollocks imho . Theres no substance to any allegation or implication that part of the Olympic charter has been broken or undermined in any manner. Its deliberate confusion mongering. Propaganda with no actual truthful basis. Encouragement of a lie.
 
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