Homophobia affecting gay people in Africa

[phildwyer]

Yeah, because the British never once imposed laws banning homosexuality in their African colonies.

An excellent point. One hundred years ago, the colonial powers attempted to ban homosexualityby force; today they attempt to impose its toleration by force. The irony is by no means lost on the peoples of Africa.

Meanwhile, Sam George is now pretending he doesn't believe the letters from the World Bank and IMF issue serious threats to the government of Ghana. He knows perfectly well that they do. What he wants to expose is the nature of those threats. He wants Ghanaians to be fully aware of the utter contempt with which the institutions of international capital treat their democratically-elected representatives:

Sam George dares finance ministry to publish letters from World Bank, IMF on Anti-LGBT+ Bill

The Member of Parliament for Ningo-Prampram, Sam Nartey George, has challenged the Ministry of Finance to provide the letter from the Bretton Woods Institutions about their intentions to withdraw funds if President Akufo-Addo signs the anti-gay bill...

www.ghanaweb.com

 

[nino_savatte]

An excellent point. One hundred years ago, the colonial powers attempted to ban homosexualityby force; today they attempt to impose its toleration by force. The irony is by no means lost on the peoples of Africa.

Meanwhile, Sam George is now pretending he doesn't believe the letters from the World Bank and IMF issue serious threats to the government of Ghana. He knows perfectly well that they do. What he wants to expose is the nature of those threats. He wants Ghanaians to be fully aware of the utter contempt with which the institutions of international capital treat their democratically-elected representatives:

Sam George dares finance ministry to publish letters from World Bank, IMF on Anti-LGBT+ Bill

The Member of Parliament for Ningo-Prampram, Sam Nartey George, has challenged the Ministry of Finance to provide the letter from the Bretton Woods Institutions about their intentions to withdraw funds if President Akufo-Addo signs the anti-gay bill...

www.ghanaweb.com

I think you're confused, Phil. Are you telling us, in a sort of roundabout way, that you're a homophobe?

 

[InArduisFouette]

The World Bank, IMF and other institutions of global capital retaliate against homophobic governments in Africa by withdrawing what they call "credit" and "aid." This rapidly impoverishes the local population, thus pissing them off a lot and convincing them that global capital is attempting to force them into tolerating non-traditional sexualities by brute financial power, which they perceive as neo-colonialism. For example:

World Bank halts new Uganda loans over anti-LGBTQ+ law

Uganda's Anti-Homosexuality Act contradicts the World Bank Group's values, the global financier says.

www.bbc.com

thanks for taking the time to demonstrate your utter ignorance of the cause of Homophobia ( Organised 'Christianity' of the 'white jesus' variety_ in the developing world and whom is funding it

 

[Silas Loom]

There may possibly be room for discussing the realpolitik of how China benefits and how liberalism is frustrated when Western institutions, for laudable reasons, refuse to tolerate homophobic regimes in Africa.

But it’s not going to work as a conversation involving Phil.

 

[phildwyer]

There may possibly be room for discussing the realpolitik of how China benefits and how liberalism is frustrated when Western institutions, for laudable reasons, refuse to tolerate homophobic regimes in Africa.

What gives Western institutions the right to "refuse to tolerate homophobic regimes in Africa?"

 

[Silas Loom]

What gives Western institutions the right to "refuse to tolerate homophobic regimes in Africa?"

QED

 

[phildwyer]

QED

It's a serious question, which you cannot answer.

Why do the World Bank and the IMF have a right to thwart the policies of democratically-elected governments in Africa? On what basis do they claim that right? And is their claiming of that right a good thing, or might it just possibly be a tad counter-productive?

You should think about these issues, they're important.

 

[CH1]

I found this article quoting views of a former NPP chairman more promising - to me he seems to have grabbed the nub of the issue.
May not carry weight in Ghana as Freddie Blay could be a "marmite" politician. He evidently started off as an MP in the CPP (a rump minority party which was former President Nkrumah's power base in the 1950s/60s) elected three times from 1996 - 2004 and then defected to the NPP party to support the current president in 2008.
The politics of this gay issue are not clear left/right - the campaign behind the current bill has been used a a populist ploy by the opposition NDC (officially the more left wing of the two main parties in Ghana). As happens in France and the USA sometimes the parliament is controlled by the opposition. Freddie Blay, the author of this piece is no longer an MP- but he does own a publishing business and has other business interests.
Maybe then the closest you can get in the UK would be Lord Heseltine!

 

[Dystopiary]

CH1 - do you know of All Out? They're a campaign group fighting homophobia and transphobia, and they try to help LGBT people in danger across the world.

One of their recent campaigns has been about the aforementioned new bill in Ghana.

All Out | A global movement for love & equality

 

[8ball]

What gives Western institutions the right to "refuse to tolerate homophobic regimes in Africa?"

They can presumably refuse to tolerate whatever they want. Maybe we should be looking at the degree of democratic legitimacy of institutions in general.

 

[CH1]

As regards the history of West African anti-gay legislation I found photo this still in my Facebook albums - a 2012 demo outside the Nigerian High Commission in Northumberland Avenue (Whitehall).
The striking lady in the middle came to give a lecture on the issue to Conway Hall. I don't seem to have any other pictures of the event accessible on my pc - but there were 50+ people present over the course of a couple of hours, Peter Tatchell dropped in at some point as you can see from the link below. The anti gay law in Nigeria was nevertheless introduced in 2014 - and President Goodluck Jonathan went on to lose the 2015 presidential eleciton. Seems like Nigerian were more worried about corruption than sodomy in the end!

the link (excluding me!) Nigerian Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual And Transgender Activists In London Protest Against Anti -Same Sex Laws

 

[CH1]

CH1 - do you know of All Out? They're a campaign group fighting homophobia and transphobia, and they try to help LGBT people in danger across the world.

One of their recent campaigns has been about the aforementioned new bill in Ghana.

All Out | A global movement for love & equality

I hadn't heard of them until you mentioned them there.
They seem like an American version of the Peter Tatchell Foundation perhaps.
Bigger scale - but not clear how much financial support goes to people in the countries affected.
All Out staff costs running at just under $800,000 in 2022, compared to Peter Tatchell Foundation's £80,000.
The Peter Tatchell Foundation annual report is very good of its kind PETER TATCHELL FOUNDATION - Charity 1178107

 

[phildwyer]

Akufo-Addo is now in a most unenviable position. His globalist paymasters pull him in one direction, while his people pull him in the opposite direction. It's hard to see how he can survive much longer.

The World Bank and IMF are (it almost seems deliberately) creating homophobia where it never existed before. Their punitive policies force Ghanaians to interpret the LGBTQI Issue as a patriotic struggle against neo-colonialism. Here in an fairly representative example of public opinion, Mr. Antwi-Danso urges his readers "to resist any force to push the practices down the throats of Ghanaians:"

Ghana told to stand firm and damn whatever threat there is over anti-gay bill | 3News

An International Relations Expert, Dr Vladimir Antwi-Danso, questioned the basis of using global institutions to force homosexuality on Ghana. He has described the threats that Ghana is facing in view of an attempt to legislate against homosexuality as a gunboat diplomatic approach and further...

3news.com

 

[CH1]

Akufo-Addo is now in a most unenviable position. His globalist paymasters pull him in one direction, while his people pull him in the opposite direction. It's hard to see how he can survive much longer.

The World Bank and IMF are (it almost seems deliberately) creating homophobia where it never existed before. Their punitive policies force Ghanaians to interpret the LGBTQI Issue as a patriotic struggle against neo-colonialism. Here in an fairly representative example of public opinion, Mr. Antwi-Danso urges his readers "to resist any force to push the practices down the throats of Ghanaians:"

Ghana told to stand firm and damn whatever threat there is over anti-gay bill | 3News

An International Relations Expert, Dr Vladimir Antwi-Danso, questioned the basis of using global institutions to force homosexuality on Ghana. He has described the threats that Ghana is facing in view of an attempt to legislate against homosexuality as a gunboat diplomatic approach and further...

3news.com

Akufo-Addo is leaving in December. This is his second term. His personal views may be liberal anyway. I remember he was quoted as saying gay marriage in Ghana will come - but that was at least 6 years ago.
This Washington Post article by an American/Ghanaian woman gives a lot of background to the change in attitude.

https://archive.is/U3d0P

The author lays a lot of the blame on the World Congress of Families, who sound a happy bunch. Active in Eastern Europe, Russia and the USA (of course)

World Congress of Families

The World Congress of Families (WCF) is an international group of Christian organizations opposed to LGBT rights, founded in 1997 and based in Rockford, Illinois.[1] It is active internationally, and it is particularly active in Eastern Europe. The Southern Poverty Law Center has designated it a...

rationalwiki.org

 

[phildwyer]

Akufo-Addo is leaving in December. This is his second term. His personal views may be liberal anyway. I remember he was quoted as saying gay marriage in Ghana will come - but that was at least 6 years ago.
This Washington Post article by an American/Ghanaian woman gives a lot of background to the change in attitude.

https://archive.is/U3d0P

The author lays a lot of the blame on the World Congress of Families, who sound a happy bunch. Active in Eastern Europe, Russia and the USA (of course)

World Congress of Families

The World Congress of Families (WCF) is an international group of Christian organizations opposed to LGBT rights, founded in 1997 and based in Rockford, Illinois.[1] It is active internationally, and it is particularly active in Eastern Europe. The Southern Poverty Law Center has designated it a...

rationalwiki.org

I'm sure the elite have liberal views, they're mostly educated at Western universities. That's part of the problem--toleration of minority sexualities is perceived as a specifically Western viewpoint, and thus those who seek to impose it are easily portrayed as in thrall to the West.

The Ghanaian vote passed unanimously, and iirc the Ugandan vote last year (which imposed the death penalty) had just one vote against. These are representative governments, so there's no doubt where public opinion lies, and imho there's no doubt why either.

The World Bank and IMF's devastation of African economies in the name of sexual toleration (or even their loud and numerous threats to do so) is a fast way to ensure the emergence of homophobia. Either they're run by morons or they're doing it on purpose.

 

[CH1]

I'm sure the elite have liberal views, they're mostly educated at Western universities. That's part of the problem--toleration of minority sexualities is perceived as a specifically Western viewpoint, and thus those who seek to impose it are easily portrayed as in thrall to the West.

The Ghanaian vote passed unanimously, and iirc the Ugandan vote last year (which imposed the death penalty) had just one vote against. These are representative governments, so there's no doubt where public opinion lies, and imho there's no doubt why either.

The World Bank and IMF's devastation of African economies in the name of sexual toleration (or even their loud and numerous threats to do so) is a fast way to ensure the emergence of homophobia. Either they're run by morons or they're doing it on purpose.

You refer to the elite. I rather doubt many Ghanaian MPs are educated in the UK - how could they afford the fees?
This "letter from Uganda to Queer Ghana" is from an intellectual - and he did try suing wealthy anti gay American church campaigner Scott Lively in the US courts - but after 5 years the case was dismissed as being outside the court's jurisdiction.

Letter from Uganda to queer Ghana

The law now merely awaits presidential assent. President Nana Akufo Addo, according to the BBC, already expressed interested in signing it into law if that’s “what majority of Ghanaians want”

www.monitor.co.ug

You have to admire Frank Mugisha's tenacity.
But why should anybody be put through this because US evangelicals wish to impose their moral code in Africa?

 

[phildwyer]

But why should anybody be put through this because US evangelicals wish to impose their moral code in Africa?

Both the evangelicals and the World Bank/IMF are attempting to impose their moral codes on Africa. At first glance those codes might appear to be diametrical opposites. But each of them is attempting to produce a kind of subjectivity that never existed in pre-colonial Africa: queer identity on the one hand and homophobia on the other. Both are Western inventions that depend on each other for their existence. Africa needs neither of them.

 

[CH1]

Both the evangelicals and the World Bank/IMF are attempting to impose their moral codes on Africa. At first glance those codes might appear to be diametrical opposites. But each of them is attempting to produce a kind of subjectivity that never existed in pre-colonial Africa: queer identity on the one hand and homophobia on the other. Both are Western inventions that depend on each other for their existence. Africa needs neither of them.

How about people who identify as gay in Africa then? Would you recommend a spot of conversion therapy eg

 

[Serge Forward]

Both the evangelicals and the World Bank/IMF are attempting to impose their moral codes on Africa. At first glance those codes might appear to be diametrical opposites. But each of them is attempting to produce a kind of subjectivity that never existed in pre-colonial Africa: queer identity on the one hand and homophobia on the other. Both are Western inventions that depend on each other for their existence. Africa needs neither of them.

Fuck off.

 

[Humberto]

Both the evangelicals and the World Bank/IMF are attempting to impose their moral codes on Africa. At first glance those codes might appear to be diametrical opposites. But each of them is attempting to produce a kind of subjectivity that never existed in pre-colonial Africa: queer identity on the one hand and homophobia on the other. Both are Western inventions that depend on each other for their existence. Africa needs neither of them.

Mate, gay people have been severely persecuted for thousands of years and that can't be denied. Therefore homosexuality and a resultant indentity strength for the 'tribe' has always existed. Alex Jones eating people's arses and old man Trump punishing his wife is neither here nor there.

 

[BristolEcho]

Both the evangelicals and the World Bank/IMF are attempting to impose their moral codes on Africa. At first glance those codes might appear to be diametrical opposites. But each of them is attempting to produce a kind of subjectivity that never existed in pre-colonial Africa: queer identity on the one hand and homophobia on the other. Both are Western inventions that depend on each other for their existence. Africa needs neither of them.

What a load of fucking bollox.

 

[krtek a houby]

Both the evangelicals and the World Bank/IMF are attempting to impose their moral codes on Africa. At first glance those codes might appear to be diametrical opposites. But each of them is attempting to produce a kind of subjectivity that never existed in pre-colonial Africa: queer identity on the one hand and homophobia on the other. Both are Western inventions that depend on each other for their existence. Africa needs neither of them.

Being LGBT isn't a western thing or an invention. Many cultures in Africa have a long history of gay, transgender etc identities.

Your post is, at the very least, mischievous and dishonest.

 

[phildwyer]

This is going to be quite incredibly unpopular. One can only speculate as to the kinds of pressure (both plata and plomo) that must have been exerted to induce such political self-immolation on the part of A-A. One might also speculate as to why the World Bank and the IMF, not usually noted for their humanitarianism, suddenly care so much about this issue that they're willing to threaten African democracy over it--for that's exactly what they're doing, and not only in Ghana: A-G advises President to hold on to assenting to LGBTQ+ bill - Ghanaian Times

 

[krtek a houby]

This is going to be quite incredibly unpopular.

Majority of your posts tend to be.

 

[phildwyer]

Being LGBT isn't a western thing or an invention. Many cultures in Africa have a long history of gay, transgender etc identities.

Yes I know. If you are sincerely interested in the history of African sexualities, and are not merely exploiting this issue in the furtherance of your bizarre vendetta, then you must begin by reading this:

 

[phildwyer]

Majority of your posts tend to be.

Not my post, the delay and prevarication in passing the bill into law.

 

[krtek a houby]

Yes I know. If you are sincerely interested in the history of African sexualities, and are not merely exploiting this issue in the furtherance of your bizarre vendetta, then you must begin by reading this:

View attachment 416569

Yeah, so fuck off with your "western invention" bollocks

 

[phildwyer]

Yeah, so fuck off with your "western invention" bollocks

It's specifically the imposition of Western sexual categories that African nations oppose. The phrase they most often use for what they oppose is "LGBTQ+," that is to say the concept of sexuality that has developed in the West over the last 20 or 30 years. They don't want that concept imposed upon them, they see such imposition as neo-colonialism.

But as I say, the real question to ask is why the institutions of global finance like the World Bank and IMF are so fixated on this crusade. The West has spent decades supposedly trying to make Africa democratic, but it then immediately sets about undermining the policy decisions of democratically-elected governments--and not even economic policy (which would be reprehensible but understandable) but policy regarding "LGBTQ+."

Why? What's so important about it?

 

[krtek a houby]

It's specifically the imposition of Western sexual categories that African nations oppose. The phrase they most often use for what they oppose is "LGBTQ+," that is to say the concept of sexuality that has developed in the West over the last 20 or 30 years. They don't want that concept imposed upon them, they see such imposition as neo-colonialism.

But as I say, the real question to ask is why the institutions of global finance like the World Bank and IMF are so fixated on this crusade. The West has spent decades supposedly trying to make Africa democratic, but it then immediately sets about undermining the policy decisions of democratically-elected governments--and not even economic policy (which would be reprehensible but understandable) but policy regarding "LGBTQ+."

Why? What's so important about it?

I guess jailing or executing people because of their sexuality is important.

 

[phildwyer]

I guess jailing or executing people because of their sexuality is important.

To the World Bank?