butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You did. I made a post. You didn't respond except by spitting your dummy. As you always do when you have to do more than 3 posts/or respond to me. You then, perfectly, topped it off by agreeing with me.
Why is Buddhism so attractive to westerners?
- Thread starter isitme
- Start date
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
fwiw, i think that there is a loaded question at the outset of this discussion - namely 'Why is Buddhism so attractive to westerners?'. compared to who or what? easterners, islam, xtianity, gel foot pads....
i also feel that there is an awful lot of overlay about what it does or doesn't mean, whereby cultural norms are taken as red, without any kind of thinking as to why, for eg, 4 noble truths suddenly become 'givens' to be discussed but not actually challenged or considered properly.
except for the divvo-show gwan obv
if you meet buddha on the road, then kill him
or something....
i also feel that there is an awful lot of overlay about what it does or doesn't mean, whereby cultural norms are taken as red, without any kind of thinking as to why, for eg, 4 noble truths suddenly become 'givens' to be discussed but not actually challenged or considered properly.
except for the divvo-show gwan obv
if you meet buddha on the road, then kill him
or something....
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What's ther matter idaho, scared of having to make 3 sucessive posts on one point? You can do 2, we've all seen it.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
what is the point tho butch?
in the context of (presumably) western buddhist (based on (presumably) eastern buddhist) influence and/or thinking (i guess) on western politics and philosophy?
fwiw, the anarcho-buddhist footie team were the best in the anarcho footie tournie for a few years from what i gather
in the context of (presumably) western buddhist (based on (presumably) eastern buddhist) influence and/or thinking (i guess) on western politics and philosophy?
fwiw, the anarcho-buddhist footie team were the best in the anarcho footie tournie for a few years from what i gather
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
what is the point tho butch?
in the context of (presumably) western buddhist (based on (presumably) eastern buddhist) influence and/or thinking (i guess) on western politics and philosophy?
fwiw, the anarcho-buddhist footie team were the best in the anarcho footie tournie for a few years from what i gather
What is the point? Seriously?
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
i don't know really. i think the o/p perhaps asked some interesting questions about why so many educated/thereforeprollymiddleclass/alt. people feel drawn towards these kind of commitment-lite lifestyles. maybe?
but i also think that some eastern religion philosophy, in terms of having a better awareness of the way that you live your life, the effects that can have, the idea that you are very much a part of what goes on around you, for eg, these can be quite interesting in breaking your mental mould, if you like.
what was your point then?
but i also think that some eastern religion philosophy, in terms of having a better awareness of the way that you live your life, the effects that can have, the idea that you are very much a part of what goes on around you, for eg, these can be quite interesting in breaking your mental mould, if you like.
what was your point then?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
i don't know really. i think the o/p perhaps asked some interesting questions about why so many educated/thereforeprollymiddleclass/alt. people feel drawn towards these kind of commitment-lite lifestyles. maybe?
but i also think that some eastern religion philosophy, in terms of having a better awareness of the way that you live your life, the effects that can have, the idea that you are very much a part of what goes on around you, for eg, these can be quite interesting in breaking your mental mould, if you like.
what was your point then?
My point was in response to the claim that
I replied thusly
But a) no one sems to have read this post or b) felt like actually replying to any of the points or c) Idaho/JC2
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
oh i see. am into much more esoteric matters atm 
i don't know much about that so will wait for update chief
(altho the Dalai Lama selling Tibet down the river isn't necessarily about buddhism)
i don't know much about that so will wait for update chief
(altho the Dalai Lama selling Tibet down the river isn't necessarily about buddhism)
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I know, but apparently there's no relevance in talking about how it might be/not be. Idaho's sdorted all that already. He's a star.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
fair enough guv, am clearing off2bed now anyhoo.
i reckon lots of people think they know what is meant by buddhism i.e. reincarnation for eg, but imo, its not about being reborn in the afterlife as much as realising that you're always being reborn into this life; there isn't necessarily a past, present or future in these things. maybe?
twinkle twinkle......
i reckon lots of people think they know what is meant by buddhism i.e. reincarnation for eg, but imo, its not about being reborn in the afterlife as much as realising that you're always being reborn into this life; there isn't necessarily a past, present or future in these things. maybe?
twinkle twinkle......
there is no post
butchersapron = you waded in with a point about how buddhism was applied in tibet and now you are picking everyone up on how they are arguing with you and you started the argument
the OP is why is buddhism appealing to westeners, the whole thing from india to japan to indonesia etc. not why tibet is an appealing cause for westeners
the OP is why is buddhism appealing to westeners, the whole thing from india to japan to indonesia etc. not why tibet is an appealing cause for westeners
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Oh, you've narrowed it down:'the dalai lama is the personification of just Tibetan Buddhism'.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Anyway, I'm sure that buddhism is popular with some westerners because it is different from our own religions, it is difficult enough to understand that it is amenable to tailoring by individuals and groups to suit their own preferences, and it is 'esoteric' enough to be trendy and antiestablishment.
I kind of agree. My snap thought in answer to the thread title, without having read the thread, is
"Because it's not christianity. "
"Because it's not christianity. "
But my considered view of buddhism is that it's actually fundamentally related to christianity.
I have this kind of mythology, or story to tell, that I think explains what I mean.
I imagine that as civilisation developed and humanity became increasingly corrupt and unhappy and fucked-up, the enlightened souls among humanity increasingly congregated and incarnated in tibet.
The idea was, get to a very high place, far above and far from the rest of the world, so as to rise above the increasingly horrible noise that suffering humanity made for those with the ears to hear it.
The general view was then that this world was a lost cause, and the only way was up, and out, the whole point was to transcend and stop being reborn in this fallen creation. Tibet was a good place for this, and through meditation on silence the family thought that they could collectively be reborn somewhere else.
But one of the masters, the baby of the family, and yet also the most powerful was never able to focus on transcending the noise of the world, -- over and over in their collective mind, and meditation, he would start listening to the noise of the world, and instead of rising above it, would start to try and transform these horrific mechanical screams and grindings into beautiful music through his imagination. This eventually annoyed the rest of the family so much, that they collectively said, well, if you can't give up on this world, and stop listening to it, fuck off and go and sort it out yourself, - so he did and incarnated in Israel about 2000 years ago.
Which is why he's also known as the renegade master, .. how does that tune go.?
I have this kind of mythology, or story to tell, that I think explains what I mean.
I imagine that as civilisation developed and humanity became increasingly corrupt and unhappy and fucked-up, the enlightened souls among humanity increasingly congregated and incarnated in tibet.
The idea was, get to a very high place, far above and far from the rest of the world, so as to rise above the increasingly horrible noise that suffering humanity made for those with the ears to hear it.
The general view was then that this world was a lost cause, and the only way was up, and out, the whole point was to transcend and stop being reborn in this fallen creation. Tibet was a good place for this, and through meditation on silence the family thought that they could collectively be reborn somewhere else.
But one of the masters, the baby of the family, and yet also the most powerful was never able to focus on transcending the noise of the world, -- over and over in their collective mind, and meditation, he would start listening to the noise of the world, and instead of rising above it, would start to try and transform these horrific mechanical screams and grindings into beautiful music through his imagination. This eventually annoyed the rest of the family so much, that they collectively said, well, if you can't give up on this world, and stop listening to it, fuck off and go and sort it out yourself, - so he did and incarnated in Israel about 2000 years ago.
Which is why he's also known as the renegade master, .. how does that tune go.?
Well, thanks for your opinion. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
Unfortunately I don't seem to be able to play mine properly, hence my location (above) and desire for well-informed advice.
Well thanks for that. I'm certainly vain enough to think it's about me. ..
But it's still a bit ambiguous. I think it means go. But I'm not quite sure.
Did you post some marillion lyrics once.?
But it's still a bit ambiguous. I think it means go. But I'm not quite sure.
Did you post some marillion lyrics once.?
As someone who now firmly believes in eternal life now this is indeed an interesting question. I don't pretend to fully know how it's all going to work - I look forward to finding out when sufficiently ascended. But perhaps I can offer an analogy.
Imagine we are all ultimately just one consciousness, like the ocean. Now we might have a cycle of becoming mist, then small particles in a cloud, repeatedly joining and reforming then developing into raindrops before finally rejoining the great one-ness of the ocean. The amount of raindrops or their destiny at any one time is of course far from constant but there is never any threat to the system as a whole. It is just a question of what the path is.
splash!
the link you posted seems to me to show quite the opposite.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
When was the time that humanity was non-corrupt, happy and non-fucked-up?
The stone age. ?
Before we figured out that having sex makes babies. ?
Before civilisation anyway.
(that's not to say that there wasn't any suffering before civilisation, but there was a general in-tune-ness and goodness to life then, people loved people, because, why not?)
You know what I think is really interesting.
The evolution of language. How did it happen?
Gradually or suddenly. Did some woman listen to the utterances of her partner and suddenly figure out that they meant something, even though the guy didn't. ?
Or was it an inter-generational thing, where in one generation there were a bunch of hominids going around making noises but not realising that they were speaking, but their children interpreted their noises as making sense and thought, incorrectly, that their parents were speaking. ?
And then was there a gradual process where those who'd clicked that we were the namers of creation only got together with each other, and evolved into humanity leaving aside the ones who didn't get it. ?
Before we figured out that having sex makes babies. ?
Before civilisation anyway.
(that's not to say that there wasn't any suffering before civilisation, but there was a general in-tune-ness and goodness to life then, people loved people, because, why not?)
You know what I think is really interesting.
The evolution of language. How did it happen?
Gradually or suddenly. Did some woman listen to the utterances of her partner and suddenly figure out that they meant something, even though the guy didn't. ?
Or was it an inter-generational thing, where in one generation there were a bunch of hominids going around making noises but not realising that they were speaking, but their children interpreted their noises as making sense and thought, incorrectly, that their parents were speaking. ?
And then was there a gradual process where those who'd clicked that we were the namers of creation only got together with each other, and evolved into humanity leaving aside the ones who didn't get it. ?
that's quite an interesting viewpoint because I have read the opinion in a few different places that the whole thing about sex being such a cause of strife in so many social relationships (which it undeniably is imo) is a deliberate bit of brainwashing by christians.
That bit is debatable, but it is very easy to illustrate with historical examples that pre christian society didn't commodify sexuality the way that it is commodified now
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