planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
I don't think their position there is anything to do with ideology. It reads to me as a personal defence of a paedophile, no doubt in their 'top rank', dressed up as ideology.
What a bunch of scum.
What's the Spartacist League up to these days?
- Thread starter Idris2002
- Start date
I don't think their position there is anything to do with ideology. It reads to me as a personal defence of a paedophile, no doubt in their 'top rank', dressed up as ideology.
What a bunch of scum.
kenny g
Sheeple Awake!
There must be someone in their ever dwindling ranks who is the go to person for articles on pop and paedos.
Other parties have had historical issues in this area, not just labour and Tories, the German Greens being particularly grotesque but the Sparts don't appear to have had any kind of reckoning. Presumably because there is still someone who is devoutly holding the flame for abuse.
PTK
Paul Kegan
The position of the Sparts on the age of consent is not new, and dates back to the 1970s, if not the 1960s. I don’t think that they hold this position today to cover-up any sexual abuse by any of their members.
Note that the Spartacist League uses the term “consensual”. It would argue that consent is the key thing, rather than age. For example, someone could be 25 and not have the capacity to consent.
The SL may point to the fact that the age of consent varies from country to country, which seems irrational. In the USA, wherein the SL originates, the age of consent varies from state to state – thus there are people below the age of majority in parts of that country who are married off to much older people. Twenty U.S. states do not require any minimum age for marriage. In other words, in some states of the USA there is child marriage, which I am sure others will agree is a hideous and exploitative practice.
The states in the USA where child marriage is permitted seem to be ones in which a certain type of Christianity is very strong, so it seems to me that the SL errs in identifying conservative Christian morality with opposition to their line on the age of consent.
According to Wikipedia, the first age of consent in England was established in 1275, and set at the age of 12. I conclude that, prior to this, the “Christian morality” of which the Sparts write in their leaflet did not deem it necessary to impose an age of consent.
The SL./US – the policies of which the SL/Britain agrees – ought to be aware of the existence of child marriage in the USA, and ought to have a policy on how to stop it here and now, before the glorious revolution that for 60 years they have imagined is just around the corner. The simplest way to stop such exploitation is for the minimum age of marriage across the USA to be set at the age of majority – 18 – as it is now in Britain. (That change came about this year).
I think that there ought to be an age of consent, but I do not know what that age should be. I think that there ought to be some flexibility. I would not be in favour of prosecuting someone of 15 years old who engaged in consensual sexual relations with another person of the same age. This, however, is a very different thing to someone of 20 engaging in sexual relations with someone of 15, for such a relationship is likely to be exploitative.
The Spartacists have the same political need for their position on the age of consent that Jehovah’s Witnesses have for their position on blood transfusions. It is something that will provoke vehement opposition in others, ensuring that Spartacists remain outsiders, and thereby strengthening the bonds between the members of the group. The SL would not be able to cope if someone formed a united front with it. It needs to provoke a split with potential allies.
Note that the Spartacist League uses the term “consensual”. It would argue that consent is the key thing, rather than age. For example, someone could be 25 and not have the capacity to consent.
The SL may point to the fact that the age of consent varies from country to country, which seems irrational. In the USA, wherein the SL originates, the age of consent varies from state to state – thus there are people below the age of majority in parts of that country who are married off to much older people. Twenty U.S. states do not require any minimum age for marriage. In other words, in some states of the USA there is child marriage, which I am sure others will agree is a hideous and exploitative practice.
The states in the USA where child marriage is permitted seem to be ones in which a certain type of Christianity is very strong, so it seems to me that the SL errs in identifying conservative Christian morality with opposition to their line on the age of consent.
According to Wikipedia, the first age of consent in England was established in 1275, and set at the age of 12. I conclude that, prior to this, the “Christian morality” of which the Sparts write in their leaflet did not deem it necessary to impose an age of consent.
The SL./US – the policies of which the SL/Britain agrees – ought to be aware of the existence of child marriage in the USA, and ought to have a policy on how to stop it here and now, before the glorious revolution that for 60 years they have imagined is just around the corner. The simplest way to stop such exploitation is for the minimum age of marriage across the USA to be set at the age of majority – 18 – as it is now in Britain. (That change came about this year).
I think that there ought to be an age of consent, but I do not know what that age should be. I think that there ought to be some flexibility. I would not be in favour of prosecuting someone of 15 years old who engaged in consensual sexual relations with another person of the same age. This, however, is a very different thing to someone of 20 engaging in sexual relations with someone of 15, for such a relationship is likely to be exploitative.
The Spartacists have the same political need for their position on the age of consent that Jehovah’s Witnesses have for their position on blood transfusions. It is something that will provoke vehement opposition in others, ensuring that Spartacists remain outsiders, and thereby strengthening the bonds between the members of the group. The SL would not be able to cope if someone formed a united front with it. It needs to provoke a split with potential allies.
PTK
Paul Kegan
It seems to me that the reason that the RMT’s members who work for National Rail have agreed, in a ballot, to accept the latest offer from their employer is because they were deeply demoralised by the spurning of the Spartacist League by Steve Hedley.{Satire}
Miss-Shelf
I'll meet you further on up the road
charlie mowbray
The Enforcer
On way back from Spain recently saw the slogan 'Vive le Ligue Communiste Internationale' (French section of the Sparts) sprayed on a motorway bridge in France.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Well, they are Leagues a-spartNot to be confused with
Oh DaveCinzano. 
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
It's okay, I'm a trained professionalOh DaveCinzano.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Met a kiwi today who told me that apparently the NZ Bolshevik Tendency has managed to recruit about 20 young people, which must make it an absolute giant by the standards of both New Zealand far-left groups, and also by the standards of spart/post-spart groups anywhere. He did also mention that the Sparts only exist in Australia, not NZ, but they still send two people to get the plane over and hand out leaflets denouncing Bill Logan once a year or so.
Dom Traynor
Tino Pai
I haven't seen them around at all so that's interesting. I wonder if it's connected to the recent Posy Parker visit? What is the Spart view on Trans rights?
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Bingo - dunno what the official Spart line is but apparently the BT are very pro-trans and were actively involved in organising the Parker counter-protest, allowing them to recruit a few young trans people who might otherwise have ended up in a slightly less weird trot group. Searching around a bit, I found this from Pride NZ, which afaict looks like a fairly mainstream LGBT site and not a spart front:
Rally for Trans acceptance and reproductive rights » PrideNZ.com
Audio from the rally for Trans acceptance and reproductive rights, held in Wellington on Sunday 26 March 2023
www.pridenz.com
The rally in Wellington became historic as Aotearoa's largest ever rally in support of transgender rights, with an estimated 3000 - 4000 participants."
You can see a name that's come up on this thread a few times at 4 minutes in, can't be often he gets invited to speak in front of a crowd of thousands.
Dom Traynor
Tino Pai
I didn't go to the rally but friends did I'll ask around.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Think this is a Spart split off. Go to admire their confidence that the slogan is good for at least three months
There are a few top slogans/headlines in there tbf.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
"continued on page 28"
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
You're a bad man, The39thStep, 
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Looked them up, found this gem from the wikipedia article:
en.wikipedia.org
League for the Fourth International - Wikipedia
You can find the IBT's victory statement after the one Dutch guy joined them here:
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
PTK
Paul Kegan
When you get to a certain age, you react more slowly to things. The other day I was reading some Spartacist League/Britain articles, and I began to feel irritated about the stupidity of its stance with respect to Jeremy Corbyn. I have been feeling irritated about it for a couple of years, and earlier this evening I finally worked up enough enthusiasm to post my pithily expressed incisive critique of the political positions and practices of the aforementioned organisation.
I would like to make it clear that Boy George was never even a contact, let alone a member, of the Spartacist League of Britain when I was involved with that group some decades ago, but I cannot speak for what may have passed between the greatest musician of the past century and the vanguard of the proletariat in the past forty years.
Dom Traynor
Tino Pai
Boy George was close to Soggy Oggy (AWL) for a while but became a Blairite until the Iraq war drove him to the Libdems. I think ended up supporting Change UK...
PTK
Paul Kegan
Boy George is not as excitable as some who have changed their political allegiances a number of times over the years. You could say that he was a calmer chameleon.
I’ll grab your coat.
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