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Day of Action: 1st October 2022

Are people justifying their non involvement by deploying
a 'samba-band- tastic protest is shit' argument?

I attended yesterday at kings cross and my main take away was that union leaders are speaking powerfully at the moment and strengthening my own union locally is an action I can and will take
 
charlie mowbray said:
What really pissed me off at the Kings X protest ( apart from the myriad Trot sects and the slavish adulation for Corbyn) were the pillocks who periodically let off noxious flares that gassed the crowd, worse than the crap samba bands that periodically drown out chants and conversation. Think that the flare lighting shit originated in the anarkid/Ninja antifa scene.
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Agree about the flares
 
AmateurAgitator said:
Despite what I said about EIE I still feel that anarchists and left libertarians should still try to comunicate our ideas at these Enough Is Enough events, though we don't necessarily have to focus soley on that. But there are those from the working class at these events.
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What do you propose?
 
Karl Masks said:
What do you propose?
Click to expand...
Militant escalation, resistance, subversion and coordination, as I and others have already said on here.

And as an anarchist I believe in having a genuinely grass roots movement that utilises mutual aid, direct action, free association and decentralisation, being anti-parliamentary, anti-state and libertarian.

I think that centralisation, reformism, authoritarian politics, statism, appeals to govt and parliament, passivity, 'revolutionary' 'socialist' parties and political parties and politicians of any kind will get us nowhere, as has been repeatedly proven.
 
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AmateurAgitator said:
Militant escalation, resistance, subversion and coordination, as I've already said on here.

And as an anarchist I believe in having a genuinely grass roots movement that utilises mutual aid, direct action, free association and decentralisation, being anti-parliamentary, anti-state and libertarian.
Click to expand...
How's that going?
 
Red Sky said:
Sure. I'm asking how its going? Or haven't you started?
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Its not about just me, its about others aswell. I'm doing what I can for an anarchist communist network/ the anarchist movement/ revolutionary working class movement and I've already expressed my thoughts about what I did and what I experienced yesterday and what I think should be done.
 
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AmateurAgitator said:
Militant escalation, resistance, subversion and coordination, as I've already said on here.

And as an anarchist I believe in having a genuinely grass roots movement that utilises mutual aid, direct action, free association and decentralisation, being anti-parliamentary, anti-state and libertarian.

I think that centralisation, reformism,, authoritarian politics, statism, appeals to govt and parliament, passivity, 'revolutionary' 'socialist' parties and political parties and politicians of any kind will get us nowhere, as has been repeatedly proven.
Click to expand...
That’s quite a list you got there tbh
 
kenny g said:
Problem is that as soon as the "festival" bit starts the protest starts to feel associated with something that many people wouldn't want to/ couldn't be arsed to attend. Obviously the state loves to use music and parades to reinforce their spectacle, but I wonder what would be good in 2022. I wouldn't mind brass bands making a comeback ..
Click to expand...
I dunno, I do strongly feel that there's not much as infectious as collective joy and that music and "art" can reach places that speeches or whatever alone can't. And obviously it's hard to find one thing that works for everyone, presumably if Coldplay and Bastille had agreed to play that would have been a draw for some people but wouldn't really have enhanced my experience of the day.
LDC said:
I think they're from Ultras more then the antifa scene. I like flares and smokes though, gives it all a nice Apocalypse Now vibe. ;)
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Bit of both, innit, I think the ninja antifa scene copied them from the ultras (and to me it does feel like very much an ultras more than a casuals thing, iyswim), but I reckon the crossover of "people who go on UK lefty demonstrations" is probably a fair bit higher with the antifa scene than with euro ultras. I actually think the smell you get with flares is quite a nice one, I may be in a minority there though. Beats whistles and sodding vuvuzelas anyway, the 2010 World Cup has a lot to answer for.

Anyway, actual thoughts on the day itself: I was very glad Don't Pay did their thing, doing an A-B march around the city centre (led by a samba band!) may not be the most exciting and they didn't seem to have any flares, but it definitely made the day a fair bit more lively than just being stood in a park listening to speeches and nothing else would've been.

As has been discussed extensively elsewhere, the Don't Pay/EIE split is a shame, the Unite/EIE split is too. Were there any Unite speakers at EIE events elsewhere, or are they both just fully pretending that the other doesn't exist? Don't know how much blame there is on each side, but having big trade union events about the cost of living crisis with no organised presence from one of the unions that's been most effective at winning actual pay rises does feel a bit off.

Also, can't say what it was like elsewhere, but to me it feels like anarchists as anarchists really aren't visible at all right now - I'm sure there will have been anarchists present with their union branches or as Don't Pay-ers, but an event like this weekend where there was both a mass working-class gathering and a smaller, separate-but-related, direct action/non-payment focused breakoff event feels like something where it should've been possible to spot at least a bit of red and black. Although I suppose there's that Foucault quote about how visibility is a trap, so by those standards I guess maybe anarchists are doing great at avoiding it?
 
AmateurAgitator said:
Militant escalation, resistance, subversion and coordination, as I've already said on here.

And as an anarchist I believe in having a genuinely grass roots movement that utilises mutual aid, direct action, free association and decentralisation, being anti-parliamentary, anti-state and libertarian.

I think that centralisation, reformism,, authoritarian politics, statism, appeals to govt and parliament, passivity, 'revolutionary' 'socialist' parties and political parties and politicians of any kind will get us nowhere, as has been repeatedly proven.
Click to expand...
How is any of that going to work without some coordination or even leadership?
 
Kevbad the Bad said:
We had a climate demo at the end of last year with more people, not just the usual. Plymouth gets me down sometimes, the seemingly complete lack of interest from most people. How can that be? Now?
Click to expand...

Had there been trains I'd have come down for that one.
 
Karl Masks said:
Hard to find any cheer in the face of what will surely be unprecedented welfare cuts
Click to expand...

It's possible that the welfare cuts more than this tax fuckery or even energy costs could be the thing that turns capital against the tories. A huge number of landlords (and by extension a big chunk of the financial sector) are kept in business by housing benefit. Which is already a lot lower than real-world housing costs. The mortgage market has already taken a shoeing in the last fortnight.

The whole property/banking thing is extremely fragile. And yes I know I've been saying that for years but one day I'll be proven right.
 
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Miss-Shelf said:
Are people justifying their non involvement by deploying
a 'samba-band- tastic protest is shit' argument?

I attended yesterday at kings cross and my main take away was that union leaders are speaking powerfully at the moment and strengthening my own union locally is an action I can and will take
Click to expand...
No I'm just pointing out that the Samba band is shit but don't let that stop you defaulting to the usual
" Do you even lift bro?" response when ever anyone offers some critique about what might make a protest less of a jolly hip shaking spectacle and more of a protest.

Rather than pulling a Rick from the young ones routine like the other mush did, mabe you could respond to the point raised.

That being, that the presence of a Samba band might not really give off the vibe that people are angry about something. It's like an ice cream van at a wake or a burger van outside an anti meat gig.

I've travelled to London to protest numerous times and when the time is right I'll l be there again but paying the lecky bill and shelling out £200 to walk behind a load of folk exercising their rent a drum hobby isn't going to get me south of Watford gap this weekend sorry.

Glad you went and heard some good speeches though.:thumbs:

Maybe someone could post those instead of the usual Rinky Dinkery that seems to get that london out on the street.
 
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hitmouse said:
I dunno, I do strongly feel that there's not much as infectious as collective joy and that music and "art" can reach places that speeches or whatever alone can't. And obviously it's hard to find one thing that works for everyone, presumably if Coldplay and Bastille had agreed to play that would have been a draw for some people but wouldn't really have enhanced my experience of the day.

Bit of both, innit, I think the ninja antifa scene copied them from the ultras (and to me it does feel like very much an ultras more than a casuals thing, iyswim), but I reckon the crossover of "people who go on UK lefty demonstrations" is probably a fair bit higher with the antifa scene than with euro ultras. I actually think the smell you get with flares is quite a nice one, I may be in a minority there though. Beats whistles and sodding vuvuzelas anyway, the 2010 World Cup has a lot to answer for.

Anyway, actual thoughts on the day itself: I was very glad Don't Pay did their thing, doing an A-B march around the city centre (led by a samba band!) may not be the most exciting and they didn't seem to have any flares, but it definitely made the day a fair bit more lively than just being stood in a park listening to speeches and nothing else would've been.

As has been discussed extensively elsewhere, the Don't Pay/EIE split is a shame, the Unite/EIE split is too. Were there any Unite speakers at EIE events elsewhere, or are they both just fully pretending that the other doesn't exist? Don't know how much blame there is on each side, but having big trade union events about the cost of living crisis with no organised presence from one of the unions that's been most effective at winning actual pay rises does feel a bit off.

Also, can't say what it was like elsewhere, but to me it feels like anarchists as anarchists really aren't visible at all right now - I'm sure there will have been anarchists present with their union branches or as Don't Pay-ers, but an event like this weekend where there was both a mass working-class gathering and a smaller, separate-but-related, direct action/non-payment focused breakoff event feels like something where it should've been possible to spot at least a bit of red and black. Although I suppose there's that Foucault quote about how visibility is a trap, so by those standards I guess maybe anarchists are doing great at avoiding it?
Click to expand...
Tbh the mainstream anarchist movement in the U.K has always been pretty crap but there's plenty of organising along anarchist principles (horizontal , decentralized, no party line etc ) that's been productive.

Don't Pay is more anarchish than EiE.
 
SpookyFrank said:
It's possible that the welfare cuts more than this tax fuckery or even energy costs could be the thing that turns capital against the tories. A huge number of landlords and (by extension a big chunk of the financial sector) are kept in business by housing benefit. Which is already a lot lower than real-world housing costs. The mortgage market has already taken a shoeing in the last fortnight.

The whole property/banking thing is extremely fragile. And yes I know I've been saying that for years but one day I'll be proven right.
Click to expand...
It'll fuck over the people who have put their money into property rather than the bank which is the collateral damage of the kind of reset that they're instigating but the last time this happened people lost their homes not their second homes.
 
friedaweed said:
No I'm just pointing out that the Samba band is shit but don't let that stop you defaulting to the usual
" Do you even lift bro?" response when ever anyone offers some critique about what might make a protest less of a jolly hip shaking spectacle and more of a protest.

Rather than pulling a Rick from the young ones routine like the other mush did, mabe you could respond to the point raised.

That being, that the presence of a Samba band might not really give off the vibe that people are angry about something. It's like an ice cream van at a wake or a burger van outside an anti meat gig.

I've travelled to London to protest numerous times and when the time is right I'll l be there again but paying the lecky bill and shelling out £200 to walk behind a load of folk exercising their rent a drum hobby isn't going to get me south of Watford gap this weekend sorry.

Glad you went and heard some good speeches though.:thumbs:

Maybe someone could post those instead of the usual Rinky Dinkery that seems to get that london out on the street.
Click to expand...
Samba just makes me want to start smashing windows . Legacy of the summit hopping Euro rioting days.
 
SpookyFrank said:
It's possible that the welfare cuts more than this tax fuckery or even energy costs could be the thing that turns capital against the tories. A huge number of landlords and (by extension a big chunk of the financial sector) are kept in business by housing benefit. Which is already a lot lower than real-world housing costs. The mortgage market has already taken a shoeing in the last fortnight.

The whole property/banking thing is extremely fragile. And yes I know I've been saying that for years but one day I'll be proven right.
Click to expand...
I'm slowly convincing myself that this situation simply cannot hold and that, in the comming weeks, they will do more. There is no way, in my mind, they can just let people go without electricity. The effects would be too costly. Even if they cut benefits, it's just a hiding to nowhere: give with one hand (cap fuel costs) take with the other.

It's just a matter of waiting as we pass through this bizarre period. There will be pain either way however

Or I could be horribly wrong.
 
Karl Masks said:
I'm slowly convincing myself that this situation simply cannot hold and that, in the comming weeks, they will do more. There is no way, in my mind, they can just let people go without electricity. The effects would be too costly. Even if they cut benefits, it's just a hiding to nowhere: give with one hand (cap fuel costs) take with the other.

It's just a matter of waiting as we pass through this bizarre period. There will be pain either way however

Or I could be horribly wrong.
Click to expand...
I think liz truss would be really happy to see people without electricity
 
hitmouse said:
I dunno, I do strongly feel that there's not much as infectious as collective joy and that music and "art" can reach places that speeches or whatever alone can't. And obviously it's hard to find one thing that works for everyone, presumably if Coldplay and Bastille had agreed to play that would have been a draw for some people but wouldn't really have enhanced my experience of the day.

Bit of both, innit, I think the ninja antifa scene copied them from the ultras (and to me it does feel like very much an ultras more than a casuals thing, iyswim), but I reckon the crossover of "people who go on UK lefty demonstrations" is probably a fair bit higher with the antifa scene than with euro ultras. I actually think the smell you get with flares is quite a nice one, I may be in a minority there though. Beats whistles and sodding vuvuzelas anyway, the 2010 World Cup has a lot to answer for.

Anyway, actual thoughts on the day itself: I was very glad Don't Pay did their thing, doing an A-B march around the city centre (led by a samba band!) may not be the most exciting and they didn't seem to have any flares, but it definitely made the day a fair bit more lively than just being stood in a park listening to speeches and nothing else would've been.

As has been discussed extensively elsewhere, the Don't Pay/EIE split is a shame, the Unite/EIE split is too. Were there any Unite speakers at EIE events elsewhere, or are they both just fully pretending that the other doesn't exist? Don't know how much blame there is on each side, but having big trade union events about the cost of living crisis with no organised presence from one of the unions that's been most effective at winning actual pay rises does feel a bit off.

Also, can't say what it was like elsewhere, but to me it feels like anarchists as anarchists really aren't visible at all right now - I'm sure there will have been anarchists present with their union branches or as Don't Pay-ers, but an event like this weekend where there was both a mass working-class gathering and a smaller, separate-but-related, direct action/non-payment focused breakoff event feels like something where it should've been possible to spot at least a bit of red and black. Although I suppose there's that Foucault quote about how visibility is a trap, so by those standards I guess maybe anarchists are doing great at avoiding it?
Click to expand...
Well, the ACG were there at the Kings X event, handing out our free newsheet Jackdaw, for what it's worth:
www.anarchistcommunism.org

New Jackdaw Out! Download here. - Anarchist Communist Group

Inside: Wildcat strikes, Can't pay won't pay, UCU ready for action. https://www.anarchistcommunism.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Jackdaw-13-1.pdf
www.anarchistcommunism.org www.anarchistcommunism.org

(Blimey, and there's a downloadable PDF, wonder of wonders)
 
What were the Don't Pay things like in other places? Were they wholly separate from the EiE thing or joined up or somewhere in between?
 
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