What's the Spartacist League up to these days?

[Carl Steele]

So, reports of the death of the Spartacist League have been exaggerated.

It appears they are fighting over the money, in the form of real estate in New York (office building) and the Bay Area (Robertson's retirement home). They are barely even bothering to feign an interest in politics these days - the Supplements are probably a part of the legal battle, evidence of the organisation still functioning so those in control can get their hands on the money.

As far as the exchange on the fischerzed blog went, I suppose I should be surprised that some long-time ex-members have never really got to grips with how batshit-crazy it all was, but actually I'm not. The emotional investment was just too great, and if you can't see how preposterous the claim to be the last best hope of humanity was, how can you make any sense of what happened?

 

[PTK]

It appears they are fighting over the money, in the form of real estate in New York (office building) and the Bay Area (Robertson's retirement home). They are barely even bothering to feign an interest in politics these days - the Supplements are probably a part of the legal battle, evidence of the organisation still functioning so those in control can get their hands on the money.

As far as the exchange on the fischerzed blog went, I suppose I should be surprised that some long-time ex-members have never really got to grips with how batshit-crazy it all was, but actually I'm not. The emotional investment was just too great, and if you can't see how preposterous the claim to be the last best hope of humanity was, how can you make any sense of what happened?

Where is the evidence that the Spartacist League is fighting internally over the disposal of its assets?

 

[Carl Steele]

Where is the evidence that the Spartacist League is fighting internally over the disposal of its assets?

There isn't any hard evidence I'm aware of - it's educated speculation by Tom Riley (of the BT). Seems the most reasonable explanation for what's going on. They do have valuable property assets which belong to the organisation and since May 2020 the American Sparts have produced a grand total of two leaflets (aka supplements). The way they present the wacky lockdown leaflet (translated into half a dozen languages) is a facade meant to suggest a functioning organisation but clearly they have no press. They didn't even bother to comment on the George Floyd/BLM protests, so what are they doing?

 

[petee]

As far as the exchange on the fischerzed blog went

thanks for mentioning that blog, I'll read that post later, but i see there that mac intosh psssed recently. i may have met him once or twice at public meetings of the IP and ICC.

 

[A380]

Real Estate in New York snd SF up for grabs you say?


I am Spartacist!

 

[kebabking]

al Estate in New York snd SF up for grabs you say?


I am Spartacist!

No, I'm a Spartacist, and so is my Wife.

As are my Spartacist children, for whom we have set up Spartacist Trusts for Spartacist tax purposes.

 

[imposs1904]

Via Splits & Fusions, fill your boots.

 

[PTK]

No, I'm a Spartacist, and so is my Wife.

As are my Spartacist children, for whom we have set up Spartacist Trusts for Spartacist tax purposes.

If you are Spartacist, then you will be able to state the Spartacist League line on the contest for Deputy Leader of the Labour Party in 1981?

 

[belboid]

If you are Spartacist, then you will be able to state the Spartacist League line on the contest for Deputy Leader of the Labour Party in 1981?

do you mean the initial one or the one they changed to after the vote had happened?

 

[planetgeli]

If you are Spartacist, then you will be able to state the Spartacist League line on the contest for Deputy Leader of the Labour Party in 1981?

Or you could just use google.

Spartacism in Britain

 

[PTK]

Via Splits & Fusions, fill your boots.

Thank you very much for this.

One of the documents throws light on the resignation of one of the members who I knew when I was a member. After she resigned, the SL published a pre-written resignation letter from her in Spartacist Britain. I asked why they published it, and was told that it was because she was quite well-known on the left.

When I say "pre-written", I mean that the letter was written when she had no intention of resigning. I thought it was odd that she had written such a letter, but accepted that it had been her decision

From reading the aforementioned document I now know that the comrade had written it in a period before I became a member, and that she was obliged to write it to demonstrate here loyalty.

The comrade concerned now works as a relatively successful academic.

 

[PTK]

Or you could just use google.

Spartacism in Britain

I was going to go on to ask a more difficult question.

 

[belboid]

Or you could just use google.

Spartacism in Britain

I dont think we even need do that. What would the sparts think about an internal labour election? Could it possibly be anything other than a plague on the pair of them?

 

[Carl Steele]

Via Splits & Fusions, fill your boots.

This is a trip down (repressed) memory lane. The amazing Joe Quigley document (I had completely forgotten about) which looks like he typed it directly onto the stencil, and wrote the title page with a broken crayon. And as an added bonus he refers to himself in the third person. Interesting how much he likes Bill Logan. I think Quigley ended up as a low-level trade union official in Birmingham.

 

[PTK]

I dont think we even need do that. What would the sparts think about an internal labour election? Could it possibly be anything other than a plague on the pair of them?

Then the word came from New York: the British section had got it wrong. It would have been in the interests of the programme if Tony Benn had won. There was a "retrospective" line change. The line now was that the pro-NATO wing of the Labour Party, as represented by Denis Healey, should be driven out of the party.

The SL would then write about its “retrospective line” for the next couple of years.

 

[PTK]

This is a trip down (repressed) memory lane. The amazing Joe Quigley document (I had completely forgotten about) which looks like he typed it directly onto the stencil, and wrote the title page with a broken crayon. And as an added bonus he refers to himself in the third person. Interesting how much he likes Bill Logan. I think Quigley ended up as a low-level trade union official in Birmingham.

I had never been aware of this document before. I had heard talk of Joe Quigley, but did not know much about him.

 

[PTK]

A fact that has just come to the fore from the depths of the land of memory is that couples paid lower subs per person than single people. I questioned this when I was a member, and never received a satisfactory answer. Such a rule did not seem much in accord with Marxism to me.

 

[Idris2002]

A fact that has just come to the fore from the depths of the land of memory is that couples paid lower subs per person than single people. I questioned this when I was a member, and never received a satisfactory answer. Such a rule did not seem much in accord with Marxism to me.

I'm very surprised at that. A successful cult (religious or political) wouldn't want any of its members to have (or retain) intimate bonds with others, inside or outside the cult. A mass of atomised individuals would seem to be more suitable.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ah, the flattop! Whatever happened to the flattop?
Where is the hair gel of yesteryear?

Never mind that, where is the hair of yesteryear?

 

[PTK]

Never mind that, where is the hair of yesteryear?

I hear you, brother, I hear you. Why don't balding men get a discount at the barber shop (or hairdresser, as they call it these days)?
Down with Reactionary Hairist Haircut Pricing!

 

[imposs1904]

I hear you, brother, I hear you. Why don't balding men get a discount at the barber shop (or hairdresser, as they call it these days)?
Down with Reactionary Hairist Haircut Pricing!

Balding men have a 'Finder's Fee Surcharge'.

 

[Carl Steele]

A fact that has just come to the fore from the depths of the land of memory is that couples paid lower subs per person than single people. I questioned this when I was a member, and never received a satisfactory answer. Such a rule did not seem much in accord with Marxism to me.

I don't remember this at all. How did they decide who was a couple? Did they have to live together for a specified time? Couples came and went pretty frequently as I recall.

I'm very surprised at that. A successful cult (religious or political) wouldn't want any of its members to have (or retain) intimate bonds with others, inside or outside the cult. A mass of atomised individuals would seem to be more suitable.

Most of the couples were quite loose, or open as we might say now, and often short term. Robertson had several wives, which might explain the policy cited by PTK.

 

[A380]

I recon there is enough knowledge on here to do an Operation Mincemeat type job and create a last remaining British Spartacist group that could prove they were the true heirs to the NY building. Should keep the server fund going for a few years…

 

[PTK]

I don't remember this at all. How did they decide who was a couple? Did they have to live together for a specified time? Couples came and went pretty frequently as I recall.



Most of the couples were quite loose, or open as we might say now, and often short term. Robertson had several wives, which might explain the policy cited by PTK.

I don't know how long people had to live together to be regarded as a couple. There were a number of people that were definitely seen as couples. It was well-known that X and Y or A and B were established couples. The Quigley document mentions one couple.

It makes sense to encourage couples from the point of view of the SL leadership. People who had close emotional attachments to people outside the group were less likely to accept oppressive behaviour.

There was also some sort of rule about secrets. You were supposed to report what someone had been saying to you that questioned the status quo in the organisation, but I think that there was an exemption for couples. When one member of a couple resigned there had been some criticism that the other member had not informed the organisation that the member was going to resign, but then I think it was said that it was all right for a member's companion to not mention such things.

This forum is beginning to read like the transcript of a public inquiry!

 

[PTK]

Tompkin's main focus was the RCP (and related splinters). There are probably some ex-RCPers who remember Barry Tompkins. I'd be interested to hear from them.

His cover job was as a delivery driver for garden supplies in London. He had a van supplied by the cops. There was nobody in the Sparts in the early 80s in London who drove a van (either for a living or privately). Nobody owned a car. It doesn't matter what his name was, this guy was never a Spart

Actually, a couple of people did have cars, but one of them resigned.

There was, however, a supporter of the SL who had a small van. He drove me and another member to the house of someone in the CP who we were trying to win over. He waited for us in the pub. He attended at least one event that was for members only; I remember someone questioning what he had been invited, at a subsequent meeting of the London "local" (as they called their branches).

 

[PTK]

I recon there is enough knowledge on here to do an Operation Mincemeat type job and create a last remaining British Spartacist group that could prove they were the true heirs to the NY building. Should keep the server fund going for a few years…

I wonder what happens when a political group dissolves itself.
The Independent Labour Party dissolved itself.
The Revolutionary Communist League of Britain dissolved itself. It had a bookshop in London. I do not know if it owned the building outright.

 

[imposs1904]

I wonder what happens when a political group dissolves itself.
The Independent Labour Party dissolved itself.
The Revolutionary Communist League of Britain dissolved itself. It had a bookshop in London. I do not know if it owned the building outright.

The Independent Labour Party became Independent Labour Publications. It still exists.

 

[Dom Traynor]

I wonder what happens when a political group dissolves itself.
The Independent Labour Party dissolved itself.
The Revolutionary Communist League of Britain dissolved itself. It had a bookshop in London. I do not know if it owned the building outright.

Quite often tangible assets will be owned by a trust.

 

[Carl Steele]

Actually, a couple of people did have cars, but one of them resigned.

Thinking about it now I remember three people who had cars, two women and a man. Also there was a supporter, the partner of a very strange American woman, who had a car. I have realised, in trying to think about those times, how vague my memories are. It was a long time ago and also very unpleasant. Often I can recall scenes, and the feelings attached to the scene, but I have no idea what is being said.

There was, however, a supporter of the SL who had a small van. He drove me and another member to the house of someone in the CP who we were trying to win over. He waited for us in the pub. He attended at least one event that was for members only; I remember someone questioning what he had been invited, at a subsequent meeting of the London "local" (as they called their branches).

No idea who this is. When I was an ex-member I remember talking to a supporter who had been ferried to an SWP meeting in a van along with a few members. She said the Sparts in the van were the tensest people she'd ever encountered. This would have been 1987 or later though, some time after Tompkins was supposedly a member.

 

[A380]

I wonder what happens when a political group dissolves itself.
The Independent Labour Party dissolved itself.
The Revolutionary Communist League of Britain dissolved itself. It had a bookshop in London. I do not know if it owned the building outright.

My mum is still pissed off* that a few of the more Tankie elements who were working for the communist party alongside her from the 50s and 60s, supposedly earning the same poverty wages as her and my dad and other people they are still friends with managed to end up with large houses in Hampstead, which they are still in. Bizarre they could have afforded them even back in the day, what with the ‘holidays’ to Moscow…

* This is to put it mildly.