Welsh fight for independence from UK bolstered by ‘clown’ Boris Johnson

[planetgeli]

They benefit from the EU the MOST? Maybe they're just trouble causers then. I don't understand either unless your summary happens to be wrong.

I don’t know if Wales benefits from the EU the most. What I do know is that a hell of a lot of the help is hidden. People on here have sometimes gone “Oh you get fancy roads that go nowhere” or words to that effect because that’s what you might see signs for. What you don’t see signs for are things like my job, which is totally dependent on the European social fund. And there are literally hundreds, probably thousands (there’s over 100 in my county alone) of jobs in similar positions, jobs in mental health, youth support, education etc. Nobody puts a sign up at my school saying “6 people (out of 17 staff) here are employed as a result of the ESF”.

Luckily my funders have saved money so we can exist until 2022. After that it’s fuck mental health in Carmarthenshire unless you really believe you can rely on a right wing government to take the same position for funding on social and mental health issues. Again, it is the lowest rung that will suffer.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I don’t know if Wales benefits from the EU the most. What I do know is that a hell of a lot of the help is hidden. People on here have sometimes gone “Oh you get fancy roads that go nowhere” or words to that effect because that’s what you might see signs for. What you don’t see signs for are things like my job, which is totally dependent on the European social fund. And there are literally hundreds, probably thousands (there’s over 100 in my county alone) of jobs in similar positions, jobs in mental health, youth support, education etc. Nobody puts a sign up at my school saying “6 people (out of 17 staff) here are employed as a result of the ESF”.

Luckily my funders have saved money so we can exist until 2022. After that it’s fuck mental health in Carmarthenshire unless you really believe you can rely on a right wing government to take the same position for funding on social and mental health issues. Again, it is the lowest rung that will suffer.

I dont dispute that jobs exist due to EU funding. But that still doesn't mean that those in that employ benefit from the EU the most. Who benefits when the EU demands austerity for countries who default on loans?

 

[planetgeli]

I dont dispute that jobs exist due to EU funding. But that still doesn't mean that those in that employ benefit from the EU the most. Who benefits when the EU demands austerity for countries who default on loans?

Im not arguing that, or even, as you imply, that ME being in employment of the EU makes ME benefit.

I work with the poorest kids from the poorest families suffering the greatest mental health issues. It is these people who will undoubtedly suffer when their education and mental health provision is taken away, as it will be. And it is those people who suffer most from austerity too.

 

[DexterTCN]

I dont dispute that jobs exist due to EU funding. But that still doesn't mean that those in that employ benefit from the EU the most. Who benefits when the EU demands austerity for countries who default on loans?

Wales hasn't defaulted on any loans, has it? Is this relevant?

 

[Plumdaff]

I don’t know if Wales benefits from the EU the most. What I do know is that a hell of a lot of the help is hidden. People on here have sometimes gone “Oh you get fancy roads that go nowhere” or words to that effect because that’s what you might see signs for. What you don’t see signs for are things like my job, which is totally dependent on the European social fund. And there are literally hundreds, probably thousands (there’s over 100 in my county alone) of jobs in similar positions, jobs in mental health, youth support, education etc. Nobody puts a sign up at my school saying “6 people (out of 17 staff) here are employed as a result of the ESF”.

Luckily my funders have saved money so we can exist until 2022. After that it’s fuck mental health in Carmarthenshire unless you really believe you can rely on a right wing government to take the same position for funding on social and mental health issues. Again, it is the lowest rung that will suffer.

It's stuff like this that makes me an independence supporter. I don't want to rely on the beneficence of the EU, Westminster, or Cardiff for that matter for stuff like this to exist. And I'm increasingly convinced that the way to do that is to split from Westminster so we're not dependant on their austerity politics to make decisions about what we do and don't do; but that it would have to also radically change the balance of internal governance of Wales, because frankly that's currently a turd on top of a shit sandwich. I think a radical independence campaign is part of how you do that.

(for example, I could rant at length about how awful mental health provision in Wales is even comparative to other constituent parts of the UK, but that's slightly off the thread topic)

 

[chilango]

I'd say one - potential - positive is the opening of a conversation about radical change and what sort of futures are possible.

However, as we saw with Brexit, this isn't a given. Especially if nationalist narratives dominate.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Less old dead princes, more new ones

 

[chilango]

Less old dead princes, more new ones

Here the rabble comes
The kind you hoped were dead
They've come to chop, to chop off your head

 

[butchersapron]

Each social initiative in wales is part of a nicely paid for (by those same welsh) cheap labour platform in east europe.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Each social initiative in wales is part of a nicely paid for (by those same welsh) cheap labour platform in east europe.

Do you mean in terms of lots of businesses using both wales and e european locations as low wage economies? Or something else

 

[butchersapron]

Do you mean in terms of lots of businesses using both wales and e european locations as low wage economies? Or something else

The Eu is rolling out infrastructure across eastern europe to integrate its cheap labour platform to compete with the US and SEA. The money to do that comes from me and you. We are subsidising this and paying for the cracks in society that capital/ the eu produces in wales.

 

[Proper Tidy]

The Eu is rolling out infrastructure across eastern europe to integrate its cheap labour platform to compete with the US and SEA. The money to do that comes from me and you. We are subsidising this and paying for the cracks in society that capital/ the eu produces.

Ah right. Yeah defo, capital investment into eg Poland, has been transformative, all about driving down labour costs to benefit capital

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Wales hasn't defaulted on any loans, has it? Is this relevant?

So that’s ok then. Although the statement I replied to wasn’t Wales specific. It seemed more class specific.

Im not arguing that, or even, as you imply, that ME being in employment of the EU makes ME benefit.

I work with the poorest kids from the poorest families suffering the greatest mental health issues. It is these people who will undoubtedly suffer when their education and mental health provision is taken away, as it will be. And it is those people who suffer most from austerity too.

There’s a difference between saying those with the most to lose compared with those who benefit the most. I’m not sure how we work out how each of those people voted in the referendum either without making sweeping generalisations.

 

[teqniq]

Not looking good.

 

[DexterTCN]

Early on, especially from the far left...you'll get a lot of demands. Must be this, must have that, must follow this principle. Far right just attacks you, far left tries to control you. That all sorts itself out though.

The media will ignore and misrepresent you. You'll be called racists.

Crowdfunding is your friend. Social media is the best thing in the world, get on twitter and amass followers by getting involved. Blogs will be supported if they're good.

Your first step is to take control of the parliament though.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Early on, especially from the far left...you'll get a lot of demands. Must be this, must have that, must follow this principle. Far right just attacks you, far left tries to control you. That all sorts itself out though.

The media will ignore and misrepresent you. You'll be called racists.

Crowdfunding is your friend. Social media is the best thing in the world, get on twitter and amass followers by getting involved. Blogs will be supported if they're good.

Your first step is to take control of the parliament though.

It’s not surprising that the ‘far left’ will argue against capital and the far right will have a hard on for rule Britannia. Fuck knows what your post means though.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Early on, especially from the far left...you'll get a lot of demands. Must be this, must have that, must follow this principle. Far right just attacks you, far left tries to control you. That all sorts itself out though.

The media will ignore and misrepresent you. You'll be called racists.

Crowdfunding is your friend. Social media is the best thing in the world, get on twitter and amass followers by getting involved. Blogs will be supported if they're good.

Your first step is to take control of the parliament though.

Ugh

(also you didn't invent nationalism m8)

 

[chilango]

Early on, especially from the far left...you'll get a lot of demands. Must be this, must have that, must follow this principle. Far right just attacks you, far left tries to control you. That all sorts itself out though.

The media will ignore and misrepresent you. You'll be called racists.

Crowdfunding is your friend. Social media is the best thing in the world, get on twitter and amass followers by getting involved. Blogs will be supported if they're good.

Your first step is to take control of the parliament though.

Who are you addressing here?

 

[DexterTCN]

Oh yeah...you'll have to get good at being friendly too

 

[xenon]

Fuck the far left, what ever that is. Fuck brexit no deal too.

 

[xenon]

What needs to happen is. Some imaginary shit.

 

[DexterTCN]

I'll start with some basics...

You don't have anything, you couldn't do it yourself even if you managed to get it.

What money would you use...no-one would want you.

You'e been part of the UK forever...you're not even a thing. It's just 'us' Why?

 

[isvicthere?]

So, with Scotland and even NI well on the way, it seems "take back control of our country" actually means hang, draw and quarter it.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Who are you addressing here?

I think he's educating the welsh on how to be wings over scotland or something

 

[DexterTCN]

I think he's educating the welsh on how to be wings over scotland or something

Well I was actually going towards drops in crime, NHS improvements and diverting funds to those suffering benefit cuts.

But you be you.

 

[Plumdaff]

Coming on a day when some (likely McEvoy acolyte) wankers are on Twitter on the Yes Cymru Llanelli account discussing all the awful English born pensioners and children with disabilities and special needs moving in draining Welsh resources I'm very aware of the need for far left critique of nationalism.

 

[Proper Tidy]

diverting funds to those suffering benefit cuts

Lol

 

[xenon]

Coming on a day when some (likely McEvoy acolyte) wankers are on Twitter on the Yes Cymru Llanelli account discussing all the awful English born pensioners and children with disabilities and special needs moving in draining Welsh resources I'm very aware of the need for far left critique of nationalism.

Coming on a day when some (likely McEvoy acolyte) wankers are on Twitter on the Yes Cymru Llanelli account discussing all the awful English born pensioners and children with disabilities and special needs moving in draining Welsh resources I'm very aware of the need for far left critique of nationalism.

Progressive nationalism.
Middle class flag waving no mark pricks.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Are you and Dexter out on the piss together?

 

[DexterTCN]

Lol

What are you laughing at