Welsh fight for independence from UK bolstered by ‘clown’ Boris Johnson

[butchersapron]

If you know the desperation of some of the Valleys villages, they've pretty much given up anyway.

Which is why leave won in these places. Independence is the same ticket as UKIP when no one is listening.

 

[editor]

That's not what the word desperation means - that sounds more like resignation.

They actually had a pretty high turnout, didn't they?

It's desperate enough when you're struggling to feed your family.

 

[8ball]

It's desperate enough when you're struggling to feed your family.

You have to respect the precognitive powers shown, seeing how the vote was significantly before anyone promised that there would be adequate food.

 

[editor]

You have to respect the precognitive powers shown, seeing how the vote was significantly before anyone promised that there would be adequate food.

Oh very clever.

 

[teqniq]

It's also desperate when a drugs and alcohol support worker is based in a tiny town such as Tredegar.

 

[chilango]

Says it better than I can....

 

[Proper Tidy]

Some of this thread is a bit forgive the poor thickos for they know not what they do

 

[8ball]

It's also desperate when a drugs and alcohol support worker is based in a tiny town such as Tredegar.

Are drug and alcohol issues meant to be a "city thing"?

 

[editor]

Some of this thread is a bit forgive the poor thickos for they know not what they do

I think it's more about disenfranchisement.

 

[8ball]

I think it's more about disenfranchisement.

I agree that that's a major factor in all this. Also a strong whiff of nihilism from some quarters.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I think it was about change. Or to fuck things up, same difference. Done with as much agency as anybody else.

 

[8ball]

I think it was about change. Or to fuck things up, same difference. Done with as much agency as anybody else.

An element of - "here is a button - if you don't press it, nothing changes - if you press it an unspecified change may occur".

 

[butchersapron]

Any left wing argument for Independence on here?

What's the content of the red wall?

 

[8ball]

Any left wing argument for Independence on here.

Many kinds, just not on this thread so far.

 

[teqniq]

Are drug and alcohol issues meant to be a "city thing"?

No, of course not but it is some measure of the problems faced when you consider per head of population that Gwent Drugs and Alcohol Service have an office there and in two towns that are not very far away. This can of course be traced back to the closure of the mines which whilst it was a blessing in environmental terms, nothing was put in place to to ensure that there was adequate support for the soon-to-be unemployed. But it wasn't about safety nets was it? Consider on the other hand the Vale of Glamorgan which is significantly wealthier. It has one office which is unsurprisingly in Barry.

 

[8ball]

No, of course not but it is some measure of the problems faced when you consider per head of population that Gwent Drugs and Alcohol Service have an office there and in two towns that are not very far away. This can of course be traced back to the closure of the mines which whilst it was a blessing in environmental terms, nothing was put in place to to ensure that there was adequate support for the soon-to-be unemployed. But it wasn't about safety nets was it? Consider on the other hand the Vale of Glamorgan which is significantly wealthier. It has one office which is unsurprisingly in Barry.

Fair dos. I think it's uncommon for people to think that far back when talking about this stuff. Several Brexiters I've spoken to have been very focused on the last 20 years, but the roots are much deeper.

 

[butchersapron]

Many kinds, just not on this thread so far.

What happened to you?

You're now a disgusting right-wing dick, floating as a libertarian on here - and getting away with it. I knew you as a committed principled anarchist.

 

[8ball]

What happened to you?

You're now a disgusting right-wing dick, floating as a libertarian on here - and getting away with it. I knew you as a committed principled anarchist.

I'm pretty sure you were calling me such things about 12 years ago.

edit: make that 15

 

[petee]

national independence is the ticket - just look at the 26 counties!
(sry, i really have little business here but i couldn't help it ...)

 

[Proper Tidy]

Any left wing argument for Independence on here?

What's the content of the red wall?

I'd vote yes if there was a referendum

 

[8ball]

I'd vote yes if there was a referendum

Pretty important difference is that if Wales was to become independent under such circumstances, the political centre of gravity in terms of decision-making would move to the left of where it is now.

 

[Gromit]

Nah, they (Brexiters) will just blame the EU, Muslims, the poor, the Germans or whoever. That's the message that is going to be force-fed more than ever from now. Like foie gras gammon of hate, they will be bursting at the seams with it.

I never claimed that theyd place the blame squarely where it belongs. Just that they would rue it. A lot of pain on the way.

 

[mwgdrwg]

Respond to increasing division by seeking increased division. Depressing. What would Welsh 'independence' even look like? It wouldn't really be independence, would it? That's not so different from the brexit 'take back control' nonsense.

It's completely different, it would be the same if England had lost the war and was ruled from Berlin by German conquerors. Not quite the same as being in a mutually beneficial economic union, I think you'll agree.

 

[mwgdrwg]

8,000 people in Caernarfon today. It's growing.

 

[mwgdrwg]

...

 

[mwgdrwg]

Brilliant day today, so good to see so many people. Welsh accents, English accents, American accents, European accents. Very positive.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Saw that, big turnout. Only clocked one republican flag in the media pictures (actually a welsh chartist flag), but lots of the owain glyndwr/st david etc. None of the WRM flag (as below) - might just have been the photos I've seen though. Was there much on show?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Not sure what you are getting at. I'm not a Brexiter, just trying to rationalise why those that benefit from the EU most are the ones that wanted out. If fucking baffles me to be honest.

They benefit from the EU the MOST? Maybe they're just trouble causers then. I don't understand either unless your summary happens to be wrong.

 

[DexterTCN]

SCOT goes POP!: Plaid Cymru make history by TAKING THE LEAD in a Welsh poll for the first time ever

 

[Plumdaff]

Any left wing argument for Independence on here?

What's the content of the red wall?

The Red Wall is just the Wales supporters membership club, it's not political. The argument for Welsh independence isn't any different to that for Scottish or Irish independence, self determination. Yes it could be a stitch up of pre existing elite interests or it could be a point of class upheaval and change. Bit like Brexit in that regard, no?

There's the beginning of a left radical campaign for independence, stuff like Undod. For me, it's pointless supporting independence unless it's radical and left wing, because what is the point of being fucked over but independent?

Also for Welsh independence can't be successful unless English speakers in places like the Valleys want it and vote for it. Therefore I can't see it being successful unless it has something different to say.