FOCAnd I could equally state that the left have lost their mind over covid and have become obsessed with being controlled. As previousl posts, the only viable solution given current strategy is to stay in lock down forever. This is despite the virulence of the disease diminishing and death rate reducing whilst cases rise again. At some point there will have to be a common sense approach. Though I suspect that people are enjoying being locked up for their safety. This thread has rather depressingly proven that.
How do you think people will survive without an economy? I'm far from right wing, but understand that poverty and health go hand in hand. The economic fallout from Covid / lockdown in the UK, coupled with Brexit fallout is going to lead to huge levels of deprivation that will kill far more people in the long run. Its not about left or right - I hate when people have to confine to those boxes. It should be about balance and there is none. Great, short term we are saving a few lives. Long term we are going to kill many many more.I leave it to others to argue about the statistical meaningfulness of the concept of 'miniscule' in relation to this pandemic, but all I know is that a number of my friends and work colleagues have been seriously affected by this virus. Yes, no-one I know has died, but I've seen enough not to want to catch it myself and take a chance as to what might happen to me. Therefore, I do the sensible things - work from home, avoid public transports, restrict social contact, wear a mask etc. Does this mean I'm somehow being 'imprisoned' by a left-wing inspired lockdown as Right-wingnuts like waterloowelshy contend? Hardly! But even if this was true, so what! My parents' generation had to put up with far worse privations what with rationing and bombs raining down on them during the War and the ever present prospect of sudden death. No doubt waterloowelshy would have been there in 1940, writing to the Daily Mail to complain about how unfair the blackout was, after all, the chance of a Lufwaffe bomb falling on his home would have been 'miniscule' and just think of all the economic activity being harmed by blacking out the entire country just in order to avoid guiding German bombers to their targets in London!
For those of us who support the lockdown - and related measures, like masks - it is a sensible application of well proven public health principles in support of the common good. In other words, what benefits a community, or a population, rather than what benefits an individual. Obviously, the Right - who don't believe in the common good - cannot accept this as it conflicts with their belief in selfish individualism and free market Capitalism. For them, belief in their secular religion of free market economics willl always trump (pardon the pun) science. Little surprise that people who can't accept climate science, or indeed the basic laws of physics, are going to struggle with COVID.
The Right, wherever they are in power, have resisted lockdowns in response to COVID or agitated for their lifting as soon as possible on the grounds of maintaining economic activity. But this produces the obvious paradox - the virus is not properly suppressed, soon returns and sensible people (like me) given the choice, prefer to shelter rather than take a chance with waterloowelshy's 'miniscule' risk of death or long term side-effects. This means the economy grinds to a halt once again. Ultimately, people cannot be forced to go to the pub, or shopping (beyond the necessities) or to use any part of the economy they don't absolutely need. Of course, workers can be forced to return to unsafe workplaces (anyone fancy a sandwich?) by unscrupulous employers supported by Right-wing governments. Equally, schools can be made to reopen, regardless of the risks to teachers, by those same Right-wing governments to provide, not education, but childcare, all the better to force their parents back into the workplace. But in this case, let's not pretend this it is the Left who are 'forcing' anyone - it is the Right who are forcing people against their will, and at the risk of their health, to reengage with economic activity in order to restore their employers' profitability.
We see this paradox most clearly in the countries where the most perfect form of this Right-wingnuttery is in power, namely the United States and Brazil, where Right-authoritarian governments have consistently prioritised 'the economy' over public health. Both countries are now disaster zones, but it is the working class - used as cannon-fodder in the Right's offensive to keep the economy open - who have borne the brunt of infection and death. And so it is in this country, with the highest death toll in Europe, but thankfully mitigated because we still have a socialised health service and not even the Tories could stomach 400,000 dead (but still only a drop in the ocean out of a population of 70 million, waterloowelshy!)
So you keep saying.
How do you think people will survive without an economy? I'm far from right wing, but understand that poverty and health go hand in hand. The economic fallout from Covid / lockdown in the UK, coupled with Brexit fallout is going to lead to huge levels of deprivation that will kill far more people in the long run. Its not about left or right - I hate when people have to confine to those boxes. It should be about balance and there is none. Great, short term we are saving a few lives. Long term we are going to kill many many more.
Have you told that to Glasgow, Manchester or Leicester?Lockdown ended months ago. We are left with some restrictions that's all.
With caveats yes.So, end lockdown and return to normal, yes?
With caveats yes.
Wow. 3 whole months of living. And now back to lockdown.
No because hopefully there would be no further overreaction based on 13 cases creating the need for lockdown again.Like this?
No because hopefully there would be no further overreaction based on 13 cases creating the need for lockdown again.
Have you told that to Glasgow, Manchester or Leicester?
Could we still go to the pub or a restaurant together?They are not in lockdown in anyway similar to the situation we all had through April & May. They have local restrictions designed to prevent the need for anything more draconian. I mean, aren't the pubs and restaurants still open in Manchester? Not really a lockdown in any meaningful sense of the word.
No because hopefully there would be no further overreaction based on 13 cases creating the need for lockdown again.
14Out of interest what number of cases would mean you needed to do something about it again?!
depends on the people.Yeah I asked what he thought the impact of 214200 people dying would be on the economy. Never got a response.
That would depend on the % of those cases leading to hospitilisations. If no cases were leading to increased pressure on the NHS then what would be the logic in locking down?Out of interest what number of cases would mean you needed to do something about it again?!
depends on the people.
could be very positive. if it was the right 214,200. indeed, under certain conditions just 214 might need to die pour encourager les autres
chuck in the blairites tooAs far as I'm aware there's not 214,200 people in the Tory party.
That would depend on the % of those cases leading to hospitilisations. If no cases were leading to increased pressure on the NHS then what would be the logic in locking down?
you can't force themYou didn't address my major point - you can't make the economy reopen because you can't force people to consume beyond the necessities.
You sound like a centrist. In which case, you're very right-wing!I'm far from right wing ... Its not about left or right - I hate when people have to confine to those boxes.
You don't think the Government, and all of its press and media support, have been doing precisely this since the end of April?you can't force them
but you can persuade them
no.You don't think the Government, and all of its press and media support, have been doing precisely this since the end of April?
You don't think the Government, and all of its press and media support, have been doing precisely this since the end of April?
cases have been rising for more than 2 weeks. Hospital rates remain at lowest levels recorded.It takes about 2 weeks for someone to get sick enough to get to hospital. So you wont necessarily know for two weeks.