Hopefully Amazon can increase this but from my experience its a small proportion of what is delivered for reasons already outlined by scifisam due to the logistical complexities of Amazon marketplace.
DfT may introduce compulsory delivery charge for online shopping -
- Thread starter Marty1
- Start date
Hopefully Amazon can increase this but from my experience its a small proportion of what is delivered for reasons already outlined by scifisam due to the logistical complexities of Amazon marketplace.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I wonder how many people do send things back? I've never done it, but I only order after much pondering and comparison.
All that's doing is putting another rlink in the chain. Drop point for parcels already exist. People can get stuff dropped to e.g. their local post office and collect.
If instead the idia is your local hub as above, then has staff delivering from there and let's face it foot is not realistic, you've just created more traffic and need for parking, charging points etc.
Besides, these hubs already exist where practicle, it's what DHL, et al use. If they replaced their fleats with electric vans, that would be a good thing. Along with improved working conditions obv. don't mind paying extra if means the delivery operatives get a fairer deal.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Yeah, they do, don't they? Delivery drivers go to a depot and collect stuff to deliver in a relatively small area - they don't drive each item directly from the sender to the receiver.
Electric vehicles would definitely help.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Yep worse in the country because there's quite a long delivery route.
Yep You can see them on the tracking.
As for Amazon at least twice recently, a guy has delivered parcels for both me and my immediate neighbour at the same time. Which is handy.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
When I get deliveries the driver nearly always seems to be delivering to one of my neighbours too - they're holding the other parcel as they ring my doorbell. Plus pre lockdown I used to end up taking in packages for my neighbours half the time I had a delivery because they weren't in and the driver knew I was. I suppose that's less likely in rural areas or the suburbs.
josef1878 2.0
Well-Known Member
- to reduce pollution and frivolous ordering.
Web shoppers face levy on deliveries to cut pollution — The Times and The Sunday Times
Internet shoppers could be hit by a compulsory delivery charge as part of a campaign to cut congestion and toxic emissions, The Times has learnt. The government is considering a range of measures to reduce the damaging impact of the e-commerce boom, which has led to a rise in delivery vans on...apple.news
Internet shoppers could be hit by a compulsory delivery charge as part of a campaign to cut congestion and toxic emissions, The Times has learnt.
The government is considering a range of measures to reduce the damaging impact of the e-commerce boom, which has led to a rise in delivery vans on British roads.
A report from the Department for Transport’s scientific advisers recommended a “mandatory charge”, similar to that imposed for plastic bags, on all Amazon-style consumer deliveries.
It said that the introduction of free and next-day delivery deals had led to “unnecessary over-ordering”, with some people immediately sending back clothes they no longer wanted free of charge. Mandatory charges may be needed to “encourage more sustainable behaviour”, ministers were told.
The DfT said that it was considering the conclusions and could launch a public consultation on the measures.
The move comes amid growing concern over the impact of internet shopping on the environment and congestion in built-up areas.
According to latest DfT figures, annual nitrogen oxides (NOx) emissions from vans soared by 43 per cent to 99,300 tonnes between 2007 and 2017. Total NOx emissions from all other forms of road transport including cars, buses and HGVs fell sharply over the same period. In all, vans caused a quarter of NOx road transport emissions in 2017 – more than three times the amount from HGVs.
Light commercial vehicles, a category that includes delivery vans, cumulatively travelled 50.4 billion miles in Britain in the year to the end of March, a 24 per cent rise in a decade. It was more than four times the average rise seen for all vehicles. The vast majority of vans are diesel-powered.
NOx causes breathing difficulties and long-term exposure can lead to chronic lung disease.
The DfT provides a grant of £8,000 to reduce the cost of an electric van.
A spokeswoman said: “Cutting congestion and vehicle emissions in our towns and cities is absolutely key to improving air quality and building a greener transport network. We continue to work closely with experts on the best ways to achieve that and to meet our ambitious 2050 net-zero target.”
The DfT’s science advisory council was commissioned last year to investigate “last mile logistics”, including how the government should “respond to the way this market is developing”.
The group’s report, published this month, said that the industry had boomed on the back of free, next-day and even next-hour deliveries of food, clothing and other goods.
The report said: “Several online retailers are now offering a ‘pay for what you keep’ service at no delivery or return charge to the consumer. This enables customers to request far more than they expect to purchase, to enable them to make their final decision at home.”
The figures revealed that goods valued at £2.4 billion were returned after the Black Friday and Cyber Monday sales in December 2018.
The report acknowledged the benefits of internet shopping, such as fewer people driving to shops. However, its authors recommended that some of the impacts of e-commerce could be minimised by incentivising customers to accept longer delivery times and consolidating deliveries to several people in the same neighbourhood.
Officials also said that problems could be tackled by “explicitly passing the true cost of delivery and return to the customer [which] could reduce unnecessary over-ordering”.
“A mandatory charge, similar to that implemented by the government to discourage plastic carrier bag use, could be applied to all consumer deliveries and returns to encourage consumers to recognise their true business, societal and environmental cost, and hence encourage more sustainable behaviour,” it added.
The DfT was urged to formally consult the public and industry on measures to reduce the “negative impacts of last mile delivery and encourage more sustainable online shopping behaviours”, which could include a standard charge. It is not known how much the charge could be or how it would impact services, such as Amazon Prime, the £79-a-year scheme that offers free delivery.
At present delivery charges differ depending on the amount spent and the delivery time.
The online clothing retailer Asos charges £4 for deliveries but waives charges for orders above £35. It also has free returns through Hermes-registered stores and the Post Office. Amazon customers can qualify for free deliveries on orders of more than £20.
Many supermarkets offer free deliveries, with Sainsbury’s doing so on orders above £100 after 2pm on weekdays. Supermarkets also run subscription services with unlimited deliveries for a nominal charge, often starting from £5 a month. Ocado charges £10.99 a month.
Steve Gooding, director of the RAC Foundation, said: “Making consumers pay the true cost of delivery could make people more selective in what they order and what they return. But if the cost is too high then shoppers might decide the cheaper option is to browse the shops in person, which is potentially good for the high street but less so for traffic volumes.”
The DfT told The Times that it was “not obligated to follow this independent advice” but insisted it would “fully consider and engage with it”, including the recommendation to consult on reducing the impacts of deliveries.
Robo-dogs do the leg work
Battery-powered “robo-dogs” could be used to deliver goods under plans to phase out diesel vans.
A study commissioned by the Department for Transport said that autonomous “dog-like” systems were being developed that could carry goods up and down stairs. They would be used alongside wheeled vehicles to carry goods the last few metres to the front door.
Starship Technologies of California has tested small robotic self-driving carts in Milton Keynes, which use cameras, ultrasound sensors, radar and GPS to navigate their environment and make deliveries in a four-mile radius.
Amazon is pioneering the use of drones and electric cargo bikes are also being used across the UK.
Seems like a good idea to me on the face of it.
Thoughts?
Might stop me doing this late at night
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
One of the few good things about COVID-19, if you're wearing a mask people won't recognise you.
Cid
Proper break this time
There are those clothes shops that have 'online fitting services', i.e you can buy a bunch of stuff and send back what you don't want. But I have no idea what kind of impact that has relative to other forms of online shopping, and presumably you could just restrict that.
The cynic/conspiracy theorist in me wonders whether their mates are worried about not collecting rents on their retail properties, and trying to push for measures that will get people back onto the high street.
The cynic/conspiracy theorist in me wonders whether their mates are worried about not collecting rents on their retail properties, and trying to push for measures that will get people back onto the high street.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Has anyone ever mooted a tax on frivolous shopping in stores? Agents prowling high streets doing random checks on people and fining them £100 if they were there yesterday, or have a silly item with them. 
teuchter
je suis teuchter
For those who prefer not to get their news filtered by Apple or the Times, here's the actual info from the DfT:
www.gov.uk
Position statement on last mile logistics
BigTom
Well-Known Member
I'm actually wondering if it's come from a discussion about how to tax Amazon. Amazon UK avoid paying tax by being a fulfillment company, they just warehouse and deliver the products for Amazon EU Sarl (I think that's Luxembourg?) who you actually buy the product from. Amazon UK charge Amazon EU Sarl. a very generous rate for their fulfilment services and as a result break even or make a loss, with all the profits showing up in Luxembourg (or wherever) where the actual "shop" you are buying from is.
It's one of those "I know it when I see it" situations which is hard to tax because that would mean showing that Amazon UK are intentionally undercharging to shift profits abroad and doing some kind of price setting to prevent it, which is always going to be problematic.
So how do we tax amazon UK? place a tax on deliveries... except how they are framing it, it'll be seen as a tax paid by the consumer and just added to delivery charges, rather than seen as a tax on the company and making the company pay it.
Plus as others have said it'll provide a big advantage to amazon and other big places over small businesses so all in all a terrible idea if the idea came from a suggestion about how to tax amazon.
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
I’d have thought amazon would be able to argue that “prime” customers do pay a delivery charge already.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Not really. What's suggested is this:
And Amazon proclaim this:
So although the cost of Prime deliveries is born by Amazon and Prime customers pay an annual fee that includes various things, there's no way that those customers can be regarded as paying a mandatory charge per delivery.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
For those who prefer not to get their news filtered by Apple or the Times, here's the actual info from the DfT:
Position statement on last mile logistics
Hmm. The relevant part is:
A mandatory charge, similar to that implemented by the government to discourage plastic carrier bag use, could be applied to all consumer deliveries and returns to encourage consumers to recognise their true business, societal and environmental cost, and hence encourage more sustainable behaviour.
While I appreciate that the charge for returning an item would be aimed at people who buy clothes and then then send them back, it would also hit people who were actually sent the wrong thing.
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
I can’t imagine amazon rolling over on that, because it would lead to a proportion of people leaving Prime. . Perhaps they will try to rebrand it as a delivery pre-pay option, and in theory limit the number of prime deliveries per month up to the value of the pre pay. Prime video etc can be written off as a free gift to pre-pay delivery customers.
Ocado’s smart pass could also be reframed as a pre-pay for a certain number of deliveries/month.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
How come so many measures the government considers to encourage more "sustainable" behaviour so frequently involve making ordinary people pay more for goods and services? Massive failure of ambition and imagination right there.
It's such fucking bullshit. There's no mention of this charge being graded by income. So it will limit poorer people, while the rich twats will just eat the cost.
It's such fucking bullshit. There's no mention of this charge being graded by income. So it will limit poorer people, while the rich twats will just eat the cost.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Grading it by income is impossible since that would involve customers declaring their income (individually or household) to every online retailer they use.
I can't imagine online retailers not trying to strangle this idea at birth, weird world we live in when Amazon start casting themselves as the champions of the poor.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
I think it's that a small proportion of people order shitloads of stuff and send almost everything back.
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
They also don't grade the cost of the goods by income, so it works as if rich people just have more money.
Septimus Rufiji
🍺 🥴 🤮
yeah, but even cardboard boxes are a major hazard for those
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
They also don't grade the cost of the goods by income, so it works as if rich people just have more money.
It's a regressive form of taxation.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Amazon don't put up with it. I was reading a whining post from an Amazon customer who had their Amazon account banned for taking the piss with returns. They said they were only sending about 75% back. The dick.
This nonsense of a levy on deliveries is nothing more than a tax to offset the loss in taxes from fuel and Bezos not paying any UK taxes. One van delivering 200 parcels is infinitely better than loads of people driving to the shop, but the government must have its piece of the pie.
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8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
Hmmm, if only there was some kind of solution to that...
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
There is. Get us mugs to pay it for him, in the form of a delivery tax.
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