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Wear masks in shops

frogwoman said:
What should they do instead?
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Well wasn't the strategy meant to be about track / trace. Confinement of positive cases. Now it's press the panic button. Close everything down and put people in quarantine centres. For 13 cases. There has to be a pragmatic, sustainable response that looks to minimise onward spread whilst maintaining a level of functioning society. Its even worse in Australia - they are back to sqaure one in terms of lock down restrictions. Surely you cant advocate that ongoing, and seeming repeated lockdown, is a viable approach.
 
Not everything has been closed down, construction sites and i think some non essential shops are still going in Auckland and in the rest of the country restaurants, entertainment venues and so on are still open but at reduced capacity.

Sweden's approach also led to thousands of cancelled operations, lost jobs and so on and there's a public inquiry about it. I don't actually think their restrictions are that outlandish currently tbh, they're now stricter than much of Europe and they're minimising infections but have still seen a recent rise in cases too.
 
waterloowelshy said:
Wow. 3 whole months of living. And now back to lockdown.
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Short and strict lockdowns interspersed with long periods of relative normality seems both more effective than and preferable to interminable periods of semi-lockdown - I wonder how many Kiwis would want to change places with people in the UK or US right now.
 
spanglechick said:
waterloowelshy can I ask - are you in a vulnerable group? If you get this thing, do you have to worry about dying?
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I'm not worried about dying from it, any more than Im worried about dying from crashing the car / getting run over. Life is full of risks. I also examine the stats and likelihood of dying from Covid and it is so miniscule as to not even cause any concern. The stats on deaths UK wide and globally are absoluitely miniscule. As per the attached, the likelihood of dying if you are under 60 is so low as not really be a concern. If I was 80 I would have a different view.

Deaths involving COVID-19, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Number of deaths registered each month in England and Wales, including deaths involving the coronavirus (COVID-19), by age, sex and region.
www.ons.gov.uk
 
750,000 officially counted deaths (and many more uncounted without a test) is not 'absolutely minuscule' when the world has been in lockdown for months lol.

We know what an uncontrolled covid outbreak looks like, it looks a lot like parts of latin America and the US. Bodies lying in the streets, ambulances queuing up for hours, patients being treated in tents outside, refrigerated trucks outside hospital etc. The reason the risk is low is that many countries have taken steps to control the outbreak whether that's a lockdown or measures short of a lockdown as they did in South Korea, japan and arguably Sweden (badly but still).
 
waterloowelshy said:
I'm not worried about dying from it, any more than Im worried about dying from crashing the car / getting run over. Life is full of risks. I also examine the stats and likelihood of dying from Covid and it is so miniscule as to not even cause any concern. The stats on deaths UK wide and globally are absoluitely miniscule. As per the attached, the likelihood of dying if you are under 60 is so low as not really be a concern. If I was 80 I would have a different view.

Deaths involving COVID-19, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Number of deaths registered each month in England and Wales, including deaths involving the coronavirus (COVID-19), by age, sex and region.
www.ons.gov.uk
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Yeah, that was my point.
Lots of people, like me, have underlying health conditions that mean we can’t just shrug off the idea of extra risk.
 
spanglechick said:
Yeah, that was my point.
Lots of people, like me, have underlying health conditions that mean we can’t just shrug off the idea of extra risk.
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And I've already said that there should be provision for enabling at risk groups to be looked after financially and health wise. But locking everyone up when most are not at risk is ludicrous.
 
Orang Utan said:
This is why we’re in the shit. I’m alright Jack
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Have you studied the stats and seen how it largely affects those over 80? Its not a case of I'm alright Jack. Its a case of, there really isnt much to fear for the large majority of society. Thats not to say the minority should not be protected. But national / global lockdown is beyond illogical.
 
frogwoman said:
750,000 officially counted deaths (and many more uncounted without a test) is not 'absolutely minuscule' when the world has been in lockdown for months lol.

We know what an uncontrolled covid outbreak looks like, it looks a lot like parts of latin America and the US. Bodies lying in the streets, ambulances queuing up for hours, patients being treated in tents outside, refrigerated trucks outside hospital etc. The reason the risk is low is that many countries have taken steps to control the outbreak whether that's a lockdown or measures short of a lockdown as they did in South Korea, japan and arguably Sweden (badly but still).
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You probably believed those images on the TV when chinese people started collapsing in the street while just walking. Honestly the fear porn that has been drummed into people has somehow been taken on board more than the actual stats behind it. Look at the age profiles. Look at the co morbidities behind the deaths.
 
Also for every death how many people have major organ failure or brain damage?

Alan Kliger, a nephrologist at the Yale School of Medicine, said early data showed 14% to 30% of ICU Covid-19 patients in New York and Wuhan, China, lost kidney function and later required dialysis. Similarly, a study published last week in the journal Kidney International found that nine of 26 people who died of Covid-19 in Wuhan had acute kidney injuries, and seven had units of the new coronavirus in their kidneys.
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Elkind noted that one review found about 40% of seriously ill Covid-19 patients in China experienced arrhythmias and 20% experienced other cardiac injuries. "There is some concern that some of it may be due to direct influence of the virus," Elkind said.

A separate study of 416 hospitalized Covid-19 patients in China found that 19% showed signs of heart damage, and those patients were more likely to die. According to the study, 51% of patients with heart damage died, compared with 4.5% of patients who showed no signs of cardiac injury.
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It's not just lungs: Covid-19 may damage the heart, brain, and kidneys

It's widely known that the new coronavirus attacks patients' lungs, but clinicians and researchers around the world are reporting that the virus is damaging other organs, as well—a discovery that could have implications for the way doctors treat Covid-19 and for how patients recover.
www.advisory.com www.advisory.com
 
Shippou-Sensei said:
Also for every death how many people have major organ failure or brain damage?




It's not just lungs: Covid-19 may damage the heart, brain, and kidneys

It's widely known that the new coronavirus attacks patients' lungs, but clinicians and researchers around the world are reporting that the virus is damaging other organs, as well—a discovery that could have implications for the way doctors treat Covid-19 and for how patients recover.
www.advisory.com www.advisory.com
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You can easily review the hospital discharges in the UK from my previous link. I doubt the % discharged would be discharged with organ failure or brain damage. Keep believing the fear though.
 
waterloowelshy said:
You can easily review the hospital discharges in the UK from my previous link. I doubt the % discharged would be discharged with organ failure or brain damage. Keep believing the fear though.
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As even you admit, there are groups of people who have plenty to fear from this virus. Regardless of age or infirmity however, the virus is very good at spreading itself. That is why we must try to break the chain of infections with a general lockdown, sheltering the vulnerable isn't going to work if the virus is allowed to run rampant among the general population.
 
I hear a lot of this sort of thing. The vulnerable must be protected but life needs to get back to normal. Its a reasonable statement and individually I agree with both parts. The problem comes with the how. How do we achieve this given how widespread the virus is in the country? I'm yet to see a workable solution to this.
 
NoXion said:
As even you admit, there are groups of people who have plenty to fear from this virus. Regardless of age or infirmity however, the virus is very good at spreading itself. That is why we must try to break the chain of infections with a general lockdown, sheltering the vulnerable isn't going to work if the virus is allowed to run rampant among the general population.
Click to expand...
By that logic, you are implying that the only thing that will work is a general lock down until a vaccine is found. That is utterly depressing and catastrophic. Far more damaging than a herd immunity strategy.
 
So I took one for the team and watched that video. It’s quiet good but lacks perspective on the covid situation because it assumes covid will burn out.

One of the significant things it skips over is the remaining potential for covid to start causing deaths again. Suppose the current case numbers are PCR detected fragments only but let’s not forget current transmission is occurring in 20-30 year olds who don’t end up requiring hospitalisation. The problem is they keep passing it on and at some point it will infect older people who will start dying again.

Talk of a casedemic only is bollox as all studies indicate the vast majority of the population have yet to be infected, so the potential for a further exponential growth phase is there. That kind of linked video leads to apathy and a disregard of current covid precautions and therefore could lead to additional deaths. So 2/10 is my overall video rating. Dangerous stuff.
 
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