Wear masks in shops
- Thread starter Celyn
- Start date
You seem to be assuming that people aren’t getting seriously ill unless they are hospitalised.
magneze
🎧
No, it wasn't: Coronavirus: How does the Covid-19 alert level system work?
Deaths not mentioned, all about transmission.
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
Is there any evidence on likelihood of catching it a second time / timelines etc.
I would have thought there would have been enough time to gather something on this by now.
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
Reinfections don't bode well for a viable vaccine... though I guess if they are really rare.. I dunno..
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I don't think it's been around long enough to say yet but I think they are rare. I think you should be good for a few months at least.
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
If you dont need hospitilisation then its cant be defined as seriously ill surely. Ill yes, but not serious enough for hospital treatment.
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
It was actually the 5 tests being met that was the driver behind lock down restrictions being eased. Number 1 - the NHS being ovrwhelmed.
Coronavirus lockdown: Are the five tests being met?
Ministers have set five tests for easing restrictions in England. How are we doing?
www.bbc.com
magneze
🎧
Yes, that's my point you're making there.It was actually the 5 tests being met that was the driver behind lock down restrictions being eased. Number 1 - the NHS being ovrwhelmed.
Coronavirus lockdown: Are the five tests being met?
Ministers have set five tests for easing restrictions in England. How are we doing?www.bbc.com
You said it was deaths didn't you?
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
The NHS is not overwhelmed.
magneze
🎧
The alert system is based on cases. As I pointed out in my previous link. Cases is test 3 in your link. "NHS being overwhelmed" is test 1 in your link. However, all tests need to be clear, not just one.
In response to waterloowelshy: And that's why restrictions have eased considerably, and will continue to be eased if doing so keeps infections at a manageable level. Manageable meaning partly not risking another peak that would once more threaten to overwhelm the NHS.
The official strategy is still not complete elimination (which is maybe what the "casedemic" line would refer to?), but a juggling act of a return to a considerable part of our pre-covid work and social and educational life while keeping cases low enough to allow for this without things spiralling out of control. Given the wild cards of schools reopening and increased indoor socialising in winter, I don't think there is much more leeway at the moment?
Which restrictions would you like to see eased further?
Allowing the majority of society to carry on as before while shielding/isolating older people or people with pre-existing conditions is also fraught with difficulty, ethical and practical, and even if this was possible the number of people in the younger cohorts having serious cases requiring hospital treatment would be too high if the virus was left to run completely unchecked. Not much has really changed in this regard since March.
The official strategy is still not complete elimination (which is maybe what the "casedemic" line would refer to?), but a juggling act of a return to a considerable part of our pre-covid work and social and educational life while keeping cases low enough to allow for this without things spiralling out of control. Given the wild cards of schools reopening and increased indoor socialising in winter, I don't think there is much more leeway at the moment?
Which restrictions would you like to see eased further?
Allowing the majority of society to carry on as before while shielding/isolating older people or people with pre-existing conditions is also fraught with difficulty, ethical and practical, and even if this was possible the number of people in the younger cohorts having serious cases requiring hospital treatment would be too high if the virus was left to run completely unchecked. Not much has really changed in this regard since March.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
I'm continuing to find good masks much more comfortable. 
However, I've developed eczema on my lower face for the first time in years and I'd be very surprised if that weren't connected to wearing a mask in this heat.
I see this a lot from people in the US as well. It basically amounts to shutting vulnerable people in their homes.
But there are huge numbers of us, and we need to live too, not just exist. For some very old or very ill people, shielding for even longer could mean never seeing their loved ones again, or never anything other than their home and maybe the street just outside it. Some other vulnerable people do contribute to the economy, too - I agree that we need to take the economy into account, but people with disabilities are part of the economy too.
Vulnerable people are mostly at a greater risk to themselves, not others, especially if they do actually wear masks. Having social distancing measures, masks, and more working from home plus home deliveries means they can continue to live, while taking on a certain level of risk to themselves.
However, I've developed eczema on my lower face for the first time in years and I'd be very surprised if that weren't connected to wearing a mask in this heat.I see this a lot from people in the US as well. It basically amounts to shutting vulnerable people in their homes.
But there are huge numbers of us, and we need to live too, not just exist. For some very old or very ill people, shielding for even longer could mean never seeing their loved ones again, or never anything other than their home and maybe the street just outside it. Some other vulnerable people do contribute to the economy, too - I agree that we need to take the economy into account, but people with disabilities are part of the economy too.
Vulnerable people are mostly at a greater risk to themselves, not others, especially if they do actually wear masks. Having social distancing measures, masks, and more working from home plus home deliveries means they can continue to live, while taking on a certain level of risk to themselves.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
even then, this kind of talk implies that people of are less value cos of their vulnerabilities and because of their potential lesser economic value - fuck that quite frankly
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
I was diagnosed with swine flu in 2009, and only wasn't admitted to hospital because they didn't want me there passing on the infection - I lived with people who could theoretically provide basic care and call an ambulance if necessary (we lived very near a hospital, too). Nine weeks of absolute hell that would definitely usually be considered serious enough for hospitalisation, and definitely considered serious overall. Took several months to recover.
Being on a ventilator in ICU is not the only measure of a serious illness.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I didn't mean to imply anything like that, sorry 
was just making the point because there's this assumption that 'they were going to die anyway' when everyone 'dies anyway'!
And even if you were ill from something else there's a difference between dying peacefully or at least not in too much pain with all your family around, and dying alone and unable to breathe.
was just making the point because there's this assumption that 'they were going to die anyway' when everyone 'dies anyway'! And even if you were ill from something else there's a difference between dying peacefully or at least not in too much pain with all your family around, and dying alone and unable to breathe.
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
Its not that at all. But, locking down the whole of society just trashes the economy which will cause more long term deaths than covid. Whereas, targeted shielding, with a functioning economoy could be used to pay for shielders and vulnerable to remain protected while the economy continues to function. All we have have is nothing - for anyone. Once furlough ends its going to be a catastrophe.
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
How?
The amounts spent on furloughing people is a drop in the ocean compared to the largesse that banks have received in response to previous crises. If ending the furlough scheme results in disaster, then it will be because people will have been chucked on the scrap-heap, not because of the furlough scheme that was keeping them well in the first place.
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
Um, Masks havent worked in Spain or France. Quite the opposite in fact.
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
why are we even responding to this idiot, who thinks youtube videos are 'evidence' for their claims?
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Do you think ending the furlough scheme is going to help with suicide or poverty at all?
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
Sorry. I didn't realise that you weren't allowed to rerference You tube. If you'd like to see how low hospital admissions are at present then feel free to take a look.
Statistics » COVID-19 Hospital Activity
Health and high quality care for all, <br />now and for future generations
The link isnt to youtube.
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