No.I just wondered what 'wrong' reasons people might have, in your opinion.
waste of DNA sets fire to manchester dogs home
- Thread starter Pingu
- Start date
farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
You did. You've been going on about whether people are donating for the 'right' reasons, something you call 'groupthink' and 'superficial emotive manipulation'. You are overthinking this - people donate because they want to, rather than emotive manipulation as you put it. Compassion is the best word for it.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
There's a pre-existing narrative for everything, but these donations were just people responding in an unmediated, direct way to something they were upset about. It takes nothing away from from anyone's willingness to fight the cuts, work with/as claimants and all the rest.
farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
I presume he might mean donating for cynical reasons, perhaps. But that would be a judgment made about those donors, rather than knowing the reasons why they donated.
farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
Anyway, I don't care what Awesome Wells thinks. The good news is that over £800,000 has been raised now. 
And it is interesting that the ratio of donors to the amount has remained pretty constant since last night - averaging at roughly a tenner each. Nearly 82,000 donations, totalling £807,000.
And it is interesting that the ratio of donors to the amount has remained pretty constant since last night - averaging at roughly a tenner each. Nearly 82,000 donations, totalling £807,000.
What I think has no bearing on how much was raised, why would it?Anyway, I don't care what Awesome Wells thinks. The good news is that over £800,000 has been raised now.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
At least we can agree on this.
farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
I didn't say it had - I just said I don't care what you think. Because I think you're talking crap.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
It's worth remembering that people donated mountains of stuff for the people who were burnt out of their homes in the Tottenham riots in 2011.
I imagine a fair proportion of those people were on benefits, but nobody asked about this at the time. They just did the right thing.
I imagine a fair proportion of those people were on benefits, but nobody asked about this at the time. They just did the right thing.
farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
But you're going on about groupthink and emotive manipulation in relation to charitable or worthy causes, and even though you said you weren't talking about this particular case, it still falls within the same bracket. So you're talking crap.
Nice logic.
And yet we live in a society where violence against claimants, including disabled sick and vulnerable people, is skyrocketing.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Nice logic.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Which would tend to suggest that "groupthink" is only partial, no?
Not necessarily.
Look at the attitudes surrounding Help For Heroes, for example. The use of the word hero to describe soldiers. They are all heroes and we must support them. Part of the same groupthink, ably fed by the media who loves nothing more than to say 'our lads' or 'our boys' about anything from soldiers to sport players. 'Our'?
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Why are so many people on here assuming the teenager actually did it? He could easily just be a local kid known for being weird who was in the area at the time, or had been involved with the dogs' home in some way. I know some people have expressed reservations but really everyone should be withholding judgment instead of assuming, bizarrely given the usual scepticism towards cops here, that the police have got the right person.
kittyP
Pluviophile
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
I think my point is that for every lone nutter who burns down a dogs home there are several hundred who turn up to help. This is a better state of affairs than the reverse.
It is possible that the rioters and those who donated material to the victims were all acting out of selfish motives. It is also possible that they were all genuinely trying to make the world a fairer place. Who knows? I am not a priest so I do not spend to much time judging the morality that lies behind people's actions.
'lone nutter'?
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
There isn't any suggestion that there was a group of them yet, and I would think that someone who burned down a dogs home would be quite disturbed. I will of course revise my views as the evidence emerges.
farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
We'll find out more in the next couple of days as the normal period before the police have to charge or release should end on Sunday.
I think Awesome Wells has some point about the reaction and donations and I think it's to do with the polarisation between deserving/ undeserving.
As in, that family down the road who's husband died and who's mum drinks too much? Wouldn't give them a penny of my taxes, she should get a job etc, and, those lovely dogs, I'll sling them a fiver.
I'm not saying that this is a particular attitude in that area, just that I do think that as a nation we're leaning more towards the latter and not the former. Charity being based in an idea of people being deserving, and not socialism, or something.
As in, that family down the road who's husband died and who's mum drinks too much? Wouldn't give them a penny of my taxes, she should get a job etc, and, those lovely dogs, I'll sling them a fiver.
I'm not saying that this is a particular attitude in that area, just that I do think that as a nation we're leaning more towards the latter and not the former. Charity being based in an idea of people being deserving, and not socialism, or something.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Kids charities and animal charities have always had way more donations than others in the UK. I don't think this has changed recently.
My understanding is that if you look at things like funding for HIV/AIDs charities and testicular and breast cancer you will see that their donations have increased over the last 30 years.
HIV/AIDs might be the best example of people moving from "undeserving" to "deserving".
I think it's wrong to condemn the population as a whole for being bigots or ultra-conservative, when there are incredible acts of social solidarity happening every day.
Can this be built on? Sure.
Can we do this by moaning about everyone else being a shitbag? No.
My understanding is that if you look at things like funding for HIV/AIDs charities and testicular and breast cancer you will see that their donations have increased over the last 30 years.
HIV/AIDs might be the best example of people moving from "undeserving" to "deserving".
I think it's wrong to condemn the population as a whole for being bigots or ultra-conservative, when there are incredible acts of social solidarity happening every day.
Can this be built on? Sure.
Can we do this by moaning about everyone else being a shitbag? No.
Find out whether he's been charged or not. Guilt, it's usual practise to wait for a trial and verdict.
farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
Yeah, just curious as to how many people donating and sounding off about how evil the arsonist is leave their dogs at home all day while they go out to work or own breeds with genetic defects which cause them suffering. Doesn't sit right with me.Dogs are always more deserving than people, anyway.
farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
Of course, I didn't suggest anything other than we'll know whether he's been charged with an offence. We could have to wait some weeks/months before we know more - if he's charged then he'd normally be up before the Magistrate the following day, and possibly committed to the Crown. Then it could be months before anything happens.
farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
I have no idea. Plenty of people who've donated won't have dogs though - I haven't and I've donated money and food.
Pingu
Credo
my feelings at the moment are so conflicted.
i am so so fucking angry at what someone has done here and yet at the same time overjoyed at the actions of the two guys who went in and saved the dogs they could. add to this the money donated and the items and we really are seeing both the worst and the best in humanity (in my eyes).
I have made no secret of where my feelings regarding both dogs and humanity stand but this has left me quite conflicted in those views. maybe there is some hope for "humanity" after all.
the lad, if he did it, has had his life changed forever. if he doenst do a serious amount of time for arson he will forever be looking over his shoulder. AR types have long memories for shit like this and if his identity ever gets out he is seriously fucked. I have mellowed loads in the past 18 months and a teeeny weeeny part of me feels sorry for him as his life, as he knew it, is now over. i am giving him the benefit of the doubt here and assuming it was unplanned and has had far far greater consequences than he imagined - again something the old me (and many who are still like I was) would never have done.
i am so so fucking angry at what someone has done here and yet at the same time overjoyed at the actions of the two guys who went in and saved the dogs they could. add to this the money donated and the items and we really are seeing both the worst and the best in humanity (in my eyes).
I have made no secret of where my feelings regarding both dogs and humanity stand but this has left me quite conflicted in those views. maybe there is some hope for "humanity" after all.
the lad, if he did it, has had his life changed forever. if he doenst do a serious amount of time for arson he will forever be looking over his shoulder. AR types have long memories for shit like this and if his identity ever gets out he is seriously fucked. I have mellowed loads in the past 18 months and a teeeny weeeny part of me feels sorry for him as his life, as he knew it, is now over. i am giving him the benefit of the doubt here and assuming it was unplanned and has had far far greater consequences than he imagined - again something the old me (and many who are still like I was) would never have done.
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