Vegetarians! Why aren't you vegan?

[mozzy]

I've been veggie for 10 yrs now and have started to become vegan for the last 3, and for me it's been a slow process which i've taken, step by step.

I became veggie for both health and ethical reasons and it's something which I feel healthier and happier doing. I think a veggie/vegan diet is far cheaper than a meat eating diet too!

For me, it took time and was not somethnig I could become overnight, as I think you have to give your body time to adjust and get used to. For example, at first, I could not stand soya milk, but now, I love it and hate cows milk. I also find that if I eat meat, eggs, etc., it makes me ill by giving me intergestion and makes me feel sick.

I think any diet takes time for your body to acept and alot of the foods I now eat are aquired tastes. I would have hated my diet as a kid, but I now love spinich, chilli's, and most veg. I could never eat meat again as I just don't like it, and I'm slowly weaning myself off cheese. I love goats cheese though and this is not easy, but I definately have more energy and feel healthier.

However, I don't tell meat eaters they shouldn't eat meat cause I ate it for yrs, so i'd be a hypocryte to do so I reckon!

 

[ethel]

. pumping them full of hormones to maintain lactation however......

banned in the eu...

 

[mr steev]

ethically it almost makes more sense to eat meat and not dairy!

Ethically it makes more sense not to eat either.

 

[wtfftw]

interesting. I was veggie for a good few years (seven I think) but then I realised the whole diary thing and ended up eating meat again. I haven't gone through the thread multiquoting but I generally agree that the world is an ethical trap and you pick your battles. I'm quite excited for my sister though as she's lactose intolerant and veggie. She's less excited as she doesn't really like beans or lentils.

 

[ymu]

Yer what? Dairy farming's arguably more cruel than meat farming. At least eaters aren't hooked up and milked to painful levels every day, nor are separated from their young on a depressingly regular basis (who mostly go on to be killed/wasted) and are then dumped because they're not as productive any more.

Dairy farming's about as cruel as it gets imo, particularly at the massive, industrial scale end of things. If I could shift - and I wouldn't because I like meat and cooking too much - then I think the only way I could square things morally would be with a vegan diet

Saw an interesting piece the other day about robot milking. Instead of herding the cows in and out twice a day, they're allowed to come and go as they please - the robot hooks them up when they enter the stall. Lots of cows were going in several times a day; yields were up by some ridiculous amount and the quality of the milk was much higher because there was less stress hormone in it.

You're still keeping them pregnant and wasting the males for no good reason, don't get me wrong, but it does look like a step forward. Unless it was a massive con job of a film, of course.

 

[Treehugger76]

I've only been vegan for the last couple of years and was vegetarian for only a couple of months since I didn't see how I could justify eating dairy/honey etc when I thought eating meat was ethically wrong.

also, I don't think a vegan diet is restrictive at all.

I also made an awesome cake the other day, sponge with 'buttercream' icing, it was vegan-licious

but yeah, i miss mac'n'cheese, cheesy mash with salad cream, cheese on toast, fish and crustaceans but not enough to make me want to eat them.
However, it does make me sad when we go out for family dinner and they're all tucking into dishes I grew up on but its more nostalgia than anything else

 

[DeepStoat]

I've only been vegan for the last couple of years and was vegetarian for only a couple of months since I didn't see how I could justify eating dairy/honey etc when I thought eating meat was ethically wrong.

Honey?

Honey!

 

[_angel_]

No cheese. No chocolate except very dark stuff.



just kill me now

I'm sure there's got to be a nice way of getting milk from a cow without putting em thru the dairy industry though.

 

[mr steev]

I'm sure there's got to be a nice way of getting milk from a cow without putting em thru the dairy industry though.

Sadly no, there isn't.

The milk is produced for the calf - so for us to have the milk, the calf has to be removed from the equation.

 

[_angel_]

Sadly no, there isn't.

The milk is produced for the calf - so for us to have the milk, the calf has to be removed from the equation.

Can't they just produce more milk? evidently they keep enough female calves to breed with. I thought the male calves got killed because they basically weren't profitable.



Milk would probably cost more, though.

 

[fredfelt]

Can't they just produce more milk? evidently they keep enough female calves to breed with. I thought the male calves got killed because they basically weren't profitable.



Milk would probably cost more, though.

Yes. The male calves get killed straight away as there is no longer a market for veil.

Seems a bit daft to me to kill the calves straight away rather than giving them an opportunity to live - but as people conciser veil to be cruel no one buys it any more and the calves are simply wasted.

 

[mr steev]

Can't they just produce more milk?

Through selective breeding and intensive foods cows already produce way more milk than is natural... to the point it is painfull for them if they are not milked.

 

[Ms T]

Ethically it makes more sense not to eat either.

To you, maybe. I don't think there's anything wrong with eating animals, ethically, if they have been raised and killed humanely.

 

[Ms T]

Yes. The male calves get killed straight away as there is no longer a market for veil.

Seems a bit daft to me to kill the calves straight away rather than giving them an opportunity to live - but as people conciser veil to be cruel no one buys it any more and the calves are simply wasted.

Veal is making a comeback though. M&S and Waitrose both sell rose veal - the stuff which isn't raised in crates.

 

[ddraig]

To you, maybe. I don't think there's anything wrong with eating animals, ethically, if they have been raised and killed humanely.

even cats and dogs?

 

[mr steev]

To you, maybe. I don't think there's anything wrong with eating animals, ethically, if they have been raised and killed humanely.

What about the use of land? More grain needed to feed cows to get meat than if the grain was to feed humans etc.

 

[tarannau]

I don't think anyone's said eating meat is more ethical?:


But it's also worth mentioning that around 30-40% of the world's land apparently isn't suitable for directly growing crops that humans can eat. There'll still always be places where livestock farming is a reasonably efficient use of land. Equally there are landscape and environmental factors which benefit from having diverse food stocks, including meat as part of balanced agricultural approach.

 

[mr steev]

I don't think anyone's said eating meat is more ethical?:

ethically it almost makes more sense to eat meat and not dairy!

Maybe I'm reading it wrong. But just because one thing maybe worse, doesn't mean the other is justified iyswim

 

[tarannau]

Ah, you've changed your post to remove the claim about folks suggesting that meat was more ethical somehow, hence the confusion.

In general, reducing the amount of meat you eat and sourcing it better is a good thing, but there are countless ethical purchasing decisions beyond that for both vegetarians and omnivores. Swapping the odd steak from your own cows, for example, for a diet consisting of industrial soya shapes and hefty amounts of cheesy things ain't going to provide a huge ethical benefit

 

[madzone]

What about the use of land? More grain needed to feed cows to get meat than if the grain was to feed humans etc.

Cows don't need grain

 

[madzone]

Veal is making a comeback though. M&S and Waitrose both sell rose veal - the stuff which isn't raised in crates.

It's still captive though - raised in pens

 

[Geri]

I know bugger all about farming, but I'm lead to believe that land used for grazing isn't always suitable for crops.

 

[madzone]

Ethically it makes more sense not to eat either.

So you'd like to see the eradication of whole species?

 

[madzone]

I know bugger all about farming, but I'm lead to believe that land used for grazing isn't always suitable for crops.

You're right in your belief.

 

[mr steev]

Cows don't need grain

You're right... but you get my point. The amount of land needed, soya growing devastating the rain forest.
But anyway, that's not what this thread is about.

So you'd like to see the eradication of whole species?

LOL. No.
And even if everyone did stop eating meat tomorrow then I don't think that would happen. It's a bit like saying if everyone stopped keeping dogs as pets there would no dogs... sure the dogs left wouldn't be the domesticated, cross bred, freaks of nature we have but dogs as a species would still be around.

 

[Herbsman.]

it's because we're fucking hypocrites

 

[madzone]

You're right... but you get my point. The amount of land needed, soya growing devastating the rain forest.
But anyway, that's not what this thread is about.

People need to eat much less meat

LOL. No.
And even if everyone did stop eating meat tomorrow then I don't think that would happen. It's a bit like saying if everyone stopped keeping dogs as pets there would no dogs... sure the dogs left wouldn't be the domesticated, cross bred, freaks of nature we have but dogs as a species would still be around.

How would you stop them breeding?

 

[mr steev]

How would you stop them breeding?

Er, I thought you said they'd be eradicated

[/derail]

 

[madzone]

Er, I thought you said they'd be eradicated

[/derail]

You haven't thought this through have you?

What would happen to the species we currently raise for food if no-one ate meat?

 

[strung out]

we'd keep them in zoos