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Vegetarians! Why aren't you vegan?

even the strictest vegan's diet will mostly originate from farms that practice rodent control.
I'm hoping to be self-sufficient in retirement, and if I was plagued with rabbits eating my veggies, I might well find it neccessary to "dispose" of them .. mind you, living in France without going over to the dark side will be a challenge in itself ...
 
whoa, ken. I hope you're not getting defensive and implying that I'm putting you down, cos I'm not even a veggie anymore so I am in no position to be looking down on anyone.

I actually think that it's better to see it as a whole thing, where you do as much as you can/choose to. But it's up to the individual to decide whether they want to still be a part of the whole farming cruelty thing - which dairy just so happens to be (according to many) the worst culprit of - just so they can eat cheese.

Pootle is finding it difficult to draw her line, because she is aware of the shit that goes along with dairy farming, which is why I'm talking about this area in the decision.
 
No, matey, not at all. You are good people and even if you were to put me down I wouldn't mind tbh. I probably would deserve it.
 
I fucking love bacon,

I've been a vegetarian for near 19 years and yet I still really like the smell of grilling bacon. :confused: Other meats cooking makes me a bit queasy but for some reason the smell of cooking bacon still smells good to me....
 
Big Macs are the thing I occasionally crave. I used to love them. Nowadays the only part of a big mac I could eat is the gherkin. :(
 
I think so many veggies actually get slightly OCD about the notion of dietary purity. That somehow they are 'cleaner' for not eating meat, fish, etc. This is mirrored by veggies' fear of touching meat, and belief that they would get sick if they ate any.

I don't think I've ever met any veggie spouting the above. "Cleaner?" Healthier, yes?

And veggies not eating meat in the belief they would get sick? Whut? :confused: the thought of eating animals makes me feel a bit queasy these days but i don't think it would make me physically sick...although actually, it might on some sort of psychological basis, thinking about it :hmm:
 
have been veggie since almost forever and vegan for a bit a while back...

and now back to being plain old veggie. But, like you, I find the dairy industry abhorent, and so, generally, I don't eat dairy. I have no probs with nice organic, free range eggs which I happily eat :)

Eating out is a pain but as my fella is dairy intolerant we generall eat out at asian restaurants which don't tend to have much dairy in the food anyway.

Of course, there are occasions when I do eat dairy, and I just don't stress about them.

I find the label of being vegan/not vegan more annoying as having to endlessly talk about why I am vegan as soon as I go anywhere - pub, restaurant etc constantly defending my reasons and justifying my decisions ad nauseum. I find that saying i'm veggie but then eating by my own personal principles, as and when I choose to, works best for me.
 
They're pescetarian ;)

But sometimes it's easier if you're eating out/at someones house, to say you're vegetarian.

Er ok......

*runs of to wikipedia

I think some people kind of see it like... the smaller the animal the smaller the suffering.

or perhaps only feel empathy for mammals because they can personify them more easily.

Thats what i was thinking, surely if you dont eat animals because of the treatment of them, but you eat fish, your basically contradicting yourself....

Im not saying you personally btw.......
 
So fellow vegetarians, how do you square it?
In many ways, I don't. I accept that there's a very sound moral case for veganism. My main reason for not being vegan is that I struggle with the thought of how difficult it would make my life. Vegetarianism is reasonably easy these days (although there are still times I struggle to find decent food to eat), but outside of the big cities, finding vegan nosh can be quite a challenge. Then there's the issue of explaining it to your mates when you're eating our or going to their house for dinner. And I was vegan for two years and face all these problems, so I know they're not just in my head. But I also accept that this is partly selfishness, and I could make the effort if I really wanted to.

There are other issues though. There are, unfortunately, no moral absolutes. Dairy causes suffering... but so does consumerism, so does driving a car, so does eating any food produced in a poor country for export to wealthy western nations.

Another concern is that I can't see how our current model of living is sustainable. A vegan diet is dead easy in the UK, but that's largely because of our access to cheap imported food. Take that away, and it all becomes a lot more complex. Whether veganism is a sustainable way of living in this country largely depends on whether we can continue with some form of high-tech global market. If we're forced to fall back on feeding the country with locally produced foods, I find it difficult to see how this can be done without animals - especially if oil becomes increasingly expensive.

Bottom line for me is that our lives are a series of complex choices, and we select the moral battles that we're prepared to fight. Veganism isn't currently my battle. Having said that, I do make an effort to reduce the dairy that I consume, and I'm probably 95% vegan in the home.
 
I've been a vegetarian for near 19 years and yet I still really like the smell of grilling bacon. :confused: Other meats cooking makes me a bit queasy but for some reason the smell of cooking bacon still smells good to me....

I think I'm one of the very few people that find the smell of cooking bacon disgusting. The stink of the roast chicken counters in supermarkets turns my stomach too.


I've spent months eating a vegan diet, but I'm generally vegetarian. I buy soya milk, organic free-range eggs from a reliable source, organic butter (in the belief that organic have slightly better farming practices) but use vegan marg for daily use.

I'm not vegan due to ease if I'm honest. I do all the cooking in our household and my meat-eating gf is happy eating veggie. She probably wouldn't be that happy cutting out cheese so we would end up cooking seperate meals.
 
No, it doesn't. Good soya tastes every bit as good as milk - I've lost count of the amount of times I've served tea with soya in it to guests and they've failed to notice the difference.

Unless you buy free range turkey from a reputable farm, most turkeys are a freak show abomination.

Do you have to serve cold tea so it doesn't curdle?

The only milk I drink is in tea and coffee as I've found soya always curdles - unless you let the drink cool down. But I like my tea steaming. I'm fine with the taste of Soya milk.

Our milk / cheese comes with a veg box and I'm probably deluded enough to think that the animals producing this stuff are happy.
 
Do you have to serve cold tea so it doesn't curdle?

The only milk I drink is in tea and coffee as I've found soya always curdles - unless you let the drink cool down. But I like my tea steaming. I'm fine with the taste of Soya milk.

you put milk in tea and coffee ? :confused:
 
Do you have to serve cold tea so it doesn't curdle?

The only milk I drink is in tea and coffee as I've found soya always curdles - unless you let the drink cool down. But I like my tea steaming. I'm fine with the taste of Soya milk.

Our milk / cheese comes with a veg box and I'm probably deluded enough to think that the animals producing this stuff are happy.

Ever tried rice milk? I don't like soya milk, so that's the one I go for. It doesn't curdle in my daughter's tea.

When I went veggie at the age of 12, soya milk was impossible to get hold of. Now all of my local corner shops have it - one has about 12 different varieties. Shame it still mings.
 
Our milk / cheese comes with a veg box and I'm probably deluded enough to think that the animals producing this stuff are happy.
They're not. Cows have to be pregnant to produce milk. If we want that milk, the calves have to be taken away from them. Go figure.
 
Soya milk doesn't curdle in tea (unless it's very very strong ime). It does in coffee though - but coffee should be drunk black anyway :)

Soya milk has come a long way since I first went veggie (when Sunrise and Alpro were about the only options).
My mate (who likes his tea very milky) complimented the brew I made him a few weeks ago - not knowing it was soya milk :)
 
Do you have to serve cold tea so it doesn't curdle?

The only milk I drink is in tea and coffee as I've found soya always curdles - unless you let the drink cool down. But I like my tea steaming. I'm fine with the taste of Soya milk.

Our milk / cheese comes with a veg box and I'm probably deluded enough to think that the animals producing this stuff are happy.

Soya milk doesn't curdle in tea. It does in coffee though.
 
I'm quite surprised the amount of veggie's that don't care about eggs - or choose to ignore where they are from. Sure they'll buy free range but not bother about eggs in any other form. For instance they'll eat shop brought cake or cookies that clearly have battery eggs. Or get a veggie fry up from a cafe where clearly the eggs are battery. If you care about animal welfare I can't see how you could think about eating battery eggs in any form.

Personally I manage not to be vegan by being sniffy about the diary that I eat and keeping it to a minimum. In the same way that 'ethical meat eaters' will only eat meat from the local farm or a known source and perhaps just have meat once a week for a special occasion. I'm not strictly comfortable about eating diary and will have periods of being 'more vegan' where, for instance, eggs are a little too much.

I'm respectful to vegans for their principles, but even as a fussy vegetarian I can't help thinking the vegan diet is overly restrictive and perhaps even obsessive. But then your choice of diet is not always rational.
 
They're not. Cows have to be pregnant to produce milk. If we want that milk, the calves have to be taken away from them. Go figure.

I understand that. I guess my principles are flexible and I only drink a small amount of the stuff.

The thought of well raised calves being used for veil, for instance, also does not overly worry me. I don't think I'll ever eat meat but I see its place - so long as the animals are respected while they are alive.
 
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