'Vegan diets are healthier and safer for dogs' says The Guardian about University of Winchester survey

[editor]

Kill it and Grill it - Humanities motto since forever - enjoy your lettuce

You're a bit odd.

But to be clear: you don;t actually kill and grill your pet's food, it's just some macho slogan you like to throw around when veganism comes up in the discussion?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I heard an interesting thing on the No Such Thing as a Podcast about dog food recently. That is it's made to smell reasonbly nice to humans

They’re doing a crap job of that, it’s rank

 

[Micky D]

You're a bit odd.

But to be clear: you don;t actually kill and grill your pet's food, it's just some macho slogan you like to throw around when veganism comes up in the discussion?

Nothing macho its just reality

 

[editor]

Here's two more studies:

During standardized clinical examinations, no abnormalities were detected that were associated with diet...When considering blood test results, serum total protein of all 20 dogs...studied were within normal ranges...No significant differences were evident in any of the tested parameters, compared to the dogs fed a conventional diet. In particular, lower levels of iron and vitamin B12 in vegan dogs were not observed. Not even the 10% (2/20) dogs fed a homemade supplemented diet showed any significant deviations."

https://www.vetmeduni.ac.at/hochschulschriften/diplomarbeiten/AC12256171.pdf

In 2009, Brown and colleagues [52] reported the results of a study of 12 sprint-racing Siberian Huskies fed either a commercial diet recommended for active dogs (n = 6), or a meat-free diet formulated to the same nutrient specifications (n= 6). The commercial diet contained 43% poultry meal, which was replaced by maize gluten and soybean meal in the meat-free diet. The dogs were fed these diets for 16 weeks, which included 10 weeks of competitive racing.

Health checks were conducted by a veterinarian blinded to the dietary regimens. All dogs were assessed as being in excellent physical condition, and none developed anaemia or other detectable health problems."

An experimental meat-free diet maintained haematological characteristics in sprint-racing sled dogs - PubMed

A dog's nutrient requirements can theoretically be met from a properly balanced meat-free diet; however, proof for this is lacking. Exercise places additional demands on the body, and dogs fed a meat-free diet may be at increased risk of developing sports anaemia. We hypothesised that exercising...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[editor]

Nothing macho its just reality

So you don't actually 'kill and grill' anything? So it's fantasy, not reality, yes?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Kill it and Grill it - Humanities motto since forever - enjoy your lettuce

Hi Wells. Bye Wells.

 

[xenon]

They’re doing a crap job of that, it’s rank

I dunno, smells a bit like corned beef, which isn't terrible.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

When my dog eats veg the guffs are plentiful and rancid enough to strip paint from the walls. This is a common trait among greyhound type dogs, the ying of geeenhouse gases saved by not eating meat are balanced with the yang from dog farts.

Science

 

[tonysingh]

Stick a bowl of steak opposite a bowl of salad - see which one the dog goes for ...
And generally speaking - Kill it and Grill it

We killing and grilling the steak or the dog?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

A quick Google suggests there’s quite a few arguments on this, with “vegans shouldn’t own pets any kind” being a quite common position. There’s even some idiots arguing against guide dogs as apparently that’s exploiting them ffs

We have someone on here who is close to that position. Being against 'using animals instrumentally' is the line.

'Vegan' means different things to different people. To some, it just means not eating any animal products. To others, it means a whole way of life, of which not eating meat, dairy or eggs is merely one aspect.

The word 'vegan' was coined by the founder of the Vegan Society in the UK. Today, the Vegan Society defines 'veganism' as:

a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.

This is a softening of an earlier formulation:

to seek an end to the use of animals by man for food, commodities, work, hunting, vivisection, and by all other uses involving exploitation of animal life by man

History

 

[Edie]

It must be pretty difficult ethically to be a vegan and own a pet? Maybe they only have rescue animals which would make sense.

 

[editor]

It must be pretty difficult ethically to be a vegan and own a pet? Maybe they only have rescue animals which would make sense.

And it's back to vegan bashing by questioning their ethics. On a thread about dog food.

It is not our style here at Vegan Friendly to speak in moral absolutes or pass judgement on anyone for the way they apply their vegan beliefs. Even a chegan (that’s a “cheating vegan” by the way!) is doing more to help animals and the world in general than someone who eats plenty of meat. Equally, someone trying Veganuary for the first time may well be on the road to becoming a fully-fledged vegan, so should be encouraged, not belittled.

So, if you are a vegan wanting to know whether you are “allowed” to keep a pet, we would say do what your heart feels is right. That said, here are the key things to consider and the main arguments for and against vegans keeping pets, so maybe have a good read first and let your heart follow your head’s lead on the issue!

Do Vegans Keep Pets? | VeganFriendly.org.uk

Want to know if vegans can keep pets and if having a cat, dog or other animal is okay if you’re a vegan? The answer to the title question Do Vegans Keep Pets? is actually really simple. Some vegans do keep pets (though they often don’t use that word), whilst some do not. That simple

www.veganfriendly.org.uk

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Here's two more studies:

Presumably in that first study, Vitamin B12 was supplied through supplements. As the authors acknowledge (page 19), that's the only way to get it into a vegan diet.

 

[tonysingh]

And it's back to vegan bashing by questioning their ethics. On a thread about dog food.

I didn't think Edie was bashing vegans. I read that as a genuine question.

 

[Edie]

I didn't think Edie was bashing vegans. I read that as a genuine question.

I don’t mind if people are vegans, I think it’s a bit counterproductive due to food miles and industrialisation, but I’m sure my diet is worse! I just dunno where they stand on pets tbh.

 

[editor]

I didn't think Edie was bashing vegans. I read that as a genuine question.

But this kind of stuff is relentless and it's always passing some sort of negative judgement.

 

[editor]

Presumably in that first study, Vitamin B12 was supplied through supplements. As the authors acknowledge (page 19), that's the only way to get it into a vegan diet.

Yes. So?

 

[two sheds]

I just dunno where they stand on pets tbh.

Don't stand anywhere on pets it's cruel

 

[SpookyFrank]

It must be pretty difficult ethically to be a vegan and own a pet?

Because...people normally eat their pets?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes. So?

So when you talk about a 'balanced' vegan diet, what you really mean is a supplemented vegan diet. Dogs (and humans) can't stay healthy on plants alone without lab-grown supplements. They will eventually develop pernicious anaemic and become lethargic. That's the caricature of a vegan from years ago, and it has some truth to it. Before industrial production of vitamin B12 got going in the 1950s, there was no such thing as a healthy vegan diet. In that respect, the founders of the Vegan Society in the 1940s were mistaken.

You can argue that there's no problem with this, which is fine. But wording such as 'balanced' hides a slightly different reality. I think most people would consider a diet that requires supplements to be unbalanced.

 

[Poot]

Edie regarding vegans and pets, I think you're talking about a wide range of people and views which is why painting a thing as 'vegan' can be a bad thing - it means those people over there who are different to me, whereas actually we could all tweak our attitudes a bit and not have to label it. (Says the vegetarian who has just rigged her house up with non-humane mouse traps and gives zero fucks.)

Obviously explaining to a labrador that he's vegan now is pretty pointless, but if the survey shows we can feed dogs vegan food and they will be healthy and it's probably better for the planet. Which is pretty cool. I'm still traumatised from my mum saving cash by cooking beef lips and arseholes in the pressure cooker for the dog when I was a child. The smell It's one of the reasons I can't eat meat now.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Dogs (and humans) can't stay healthy on plants alone without lab-grown supplements.

And yet here I am, meat free and supplement free, and fit as a (sorry about this everyone) butcher's dog.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And yet here I am, meat free and supplement free, and fit as a (sorry about this everyone) butcher's dog.

Do you eat marmite?

It is fortified with lab-produced vitamin B12.

 

[editor]

So when you talk about a 'balanced' vegan diet, what you really mean is a supplemented vegan diet. Dogs (and humans) can't stay healthy on plants alone without lab-grown supplements. They will eventually develop pernicious anaemic and become lethargic. That's the caricature of a vegan from years ago, and it has some truth to it. Before industrial production of vitamin B12 got going in the 1950s, there was no such thing as a healthy vegan diet. In that respect, the founders of the Vegan Society in the 1940s were mistaken.

You can argue that there's no problem with this, which is fine. But wording such as 'balanced' hides a slightly different reality. I think most people would consider a diet that requires supplements to be unbalanced.

Regular dog food is stuffed full of additives too, so I'm really not sure what your point is.

 

[editor]

Do you eat marmite?

It is fortified with lab-produced vitamin B12.

And here we go again. This is a thread about dog food and not another excuse for you to trot out the same tired old nitpicking anti-vegan whataboutery.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And here we go again. This is a thread about dog food and not another excuse for you to trot out the same tired old anti-vegan shit.

Ok. Vegan dog food is fortified with lab produced vitamin B12.

It's not especially anti-vegan shit. In today's industrial, scientific society, it is very possible to eat a healthy vegan diet.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Do you eat marmite?

It is fortified with lab-produced vitamin B12

Better call the whole thing off them. Back to eating 100% natural things like broiler chickens and cows injected with hormones and stuffed full of antibiotics, to the likely doom of all mankind.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Better call the whole thing off them. Back to eating 100% natural things like broiler chickens and cows injected with hormones and stuffed full of antibiotics, to the likely doom of all mankind.

I'm not saying that, no. But words like 'balanced' are misleading.

 

[Pickman's model]

Here's two more studies:

Perhaps you could outline why you think these studies merit inclusion, and describe them, like it says in the faq. One of them appears to be a master's dissertation so not peer reviewed, for example. The second seems only to have looked at 12 dogs.

 

[NoXion]

Food supplementation is awesome. By that I mean not just the pills; the fortification of bread flour has most likely prevented a great deal of death and illness in this country.

Still not an argument for veganist ideology, though.