'Vegan diets are healthier and safer for dogs' says The Guardian about University of Winchester survey

[Ax^]

i'm saying a mixture of meat and veg balance to the dogs needs is better

but wtf do i know only of had 8 dogs in my lifetime

 

[NoXion]

And that whataboutery goes up another notch.

"Peer-reviewed analysis of 2,500 pets finds vegan dogs visit the vet less often and require fewer medications"

Vegan versus meat-based pet foods: a study of 1418 cats and 2639 dogs

Results of a 2020 online study of 4,060 cat and dog guardians, each asked to describe a single pet. After eliminating 3 blanks, 1,418 cats and 2,639 dogs were included. Owners were asked about indicators of health and wellbeing, and about pet diet and other characteristics. Hosted on the...

osf.io

Vegan versus meat-based dog food: Guardian-reported indicators of health

Alternative pet foods may offer benefits concerning environmental sustainability and the welfare of animals processed into pet foods. However, some worry these may compromise the welfare of pets. We asked 2,639 dog guardians about one dog living with them, for at least one year. Among 2,596...

journals.plos.org

There's been a number of studies that link vitamin supplementation to increased cancer risk.

The enigma of beta-carotene in carcinogenesis: what can be learned from animal studies - PubMed

Beta-carotene and other carotenoids have been thought to have anti-cancer activity, either because of antioxidant activity or because of their ability to be converted to vitamin A. Nevertheless, two large scale intervention studies in humans using high doses of beta-carotene found that...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Antioxidant supplements for prevention of mortality in healthy participants and patients with various diseases - PubMed

We found no evidence to support antioxidant supplements for primary or secondary prevention. Beta-carotene and vitamin E seem to increase mortality, and so may higher doses of vitamin A. Antioxidant supplements need to be considered as medicinal products and should undergo sufficient evaluation...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Antioxidant supplements for prevention of mortality in healthy participants and patients with various diseases - PubMed

We found no evidence to support antioxidant supplements for primary or secondary prevention. Beta-carotene and vitamin E seem to increase mortality, and so may higher doses of vitamin A. Antioxidant supplements need to be considered as medicinal products and should undergo sufficient evaluation...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think overall it's better to get your nutrients from food if you can. Given the number of heavily regulated pharmaceuticals that have shown to have cancer-causing levels of NDME introduced in the manufacturing process, it's probably that vitamins are subject to the same manufacturing/contamination issues. Or, it could be that excess levels of vitamins are causitive. The ins and outs of diet studies are complicated and difficult to reproduce.

Beta-carotene and anti-oxidants. Not the typical contents of multi-vitamin supplements. At least not the ones I buy. I think I'm good.

 

[BigMoaner]

14 pages and 1 ban

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Beta-carotene and anti-oxidants. Not the typical contents of multi-vitamin supplements. At least not the ones I buy. I think I'm good.

That's usually exactly what is in multi-vitamin supplements.

List of Vitamins and Minerals in Centrum | Livestrong.com

Centrum multivitamin ingredients are tailored for specific populations, meeting the daily nutritional needs of men and women and older and younger adults.

www.livestrong.com

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Wait. So you're saying that a balanced vegan diet is somehow not good for dogs, despite what the survey says?

The survey is really only a snapshot, though. One year in the lives of a bunch of dogs, the majority of whom weren't that old. It's indicative that a supplemented vegan diet can work and perhaps work well compared to conventional dog food, but it's no more than that.

To repeat myself, my main take-away from that survey is that regular dog food is crap for dogs.

 

[NoXion]

That's usually exactly what is in multi-vitamin supplements.

List of Vitamins and Minerals in Centrum | Livestrong.com

Centrum multivitamin ingredients are tailored for specific populations, meeting the daily nutritional needs of men and women and older and younger adults.

www.livestrong.com

Not in the generic supermarket brand ones I get. I have read the label.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Not in the generic supermarket brand ones I get. I have read the label.

I'd be interested to see the list.

 

[NoXion]

I'd be interested to see the list.

I'll share it when I get home

 

[littlebabyjesus]

i'm saying a mixture of meat and veg balance to the dogs needs is better

but wtf do i know only of had 8 dogs in my lifetime

As a general rule of thumb, matching an animal's diet to something close to that which it has evolved to eat is probably best. So with dogs, that's a mix. With cats, it basically means meat. With cows and sheep, grass preferably, not soya products. Etc.

 

[Ax^]

i agree you got to treat the animal needs over its life time and not just what you want to feed it or expect more problems

if you cannot handle pets diet maybe a better choice of pet is an option as the pet does not get to choose

 

[Calamity1971]

Diet staples for poor people is often bad all around, with both smaller quantities and worse quality. If you look at the food given out by food banks its things like processed cereals, pasta, white bread, "commodity cheese", canned soups, bottled juices. There's very little fresh veg., and what is there is verging on spoiled. And, as you noted, meat is things like hotdogs and lunch meat.

And now in Britain due to energy bills, people using food banks are asking for stuff that doesn't need heating/cooking as they can't afford the gas/electricity. Probably for another thread.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

As if wild dogs are fucking vegans.
Is there no depth this ideology won’t stoop?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

And now in Britain due to energy bills, people using food banks are asking for stuff that doesn't need heating/cooking as they can't afford the gas/electricity. Probably for another thread.

My heat bill went up 20% this month. I may not be far behind them.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

As if wild dogs are fucking vegans.
Is there no depth this ideology won’t stoop?

The lifespan of wild dogs is pretty short.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The lifespan of wild dogs is pretty short.

So we alter their nature to correct this?

 

[Calamity1971]

The lifespan of wild dogs is pretty short.

Same with feral cats.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

So we alter their nature to correct this?

They're omnivores. It's their nature to eat what's available to them.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

They're omnivores. It's their nature to eat what's available to them.

Is that what they generally do, without human intervention?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The lifespan of wild dogs is pretty short.

Well yes, domestic dogs and cats both tend to live a bit longer than their wild cousins. And cancers are what happen when you get old (unless you're a naked mole rat).

With cats, it's all too often kidney failure that gets them in the end. Did with my cat. But he was 18. Wild cats never live to 18.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Is that what they generally do, without human intervention?

I think you're missing the point. Humans are going to be in the equation in one way or another.

 

[NoXion]

Here's what the multivits I buy contain:

Spoiler

Typical Values	%RI*	Each tablet provides
Vitamin A	100	800µg RE
Vitamin D	200	10.00µg
Vitamin E	100	12.0mg α-TE
Vitamin K	100	75.0µg
Thiamin (Vitamin B1)	100	1.10mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)	100	1.40mg
Niacin	100	16.0mg NE
Pantothenic acid	100	6.0mg
Vitamin B6	100	1.40mg
Folic Acid	100	200µg
Vitamin B12	100	2.50µg
Biotin	100	50.0µg
Vitamin C	100	80mg
Calcium	25	200mg
Magnesium	27	100.0mg
Iron	100	14.0mg
Copper	100	1.00mg
Iodine	100	150.0µg
Zinc	100	10.0mg
Manganese	100	2.0mg
Selenium	100	55.0µg
Chromium	100	40µg
Molybdenum	100	50.0µg
Boron	-	0.5mg

​

​

​

The lifespan of wild dogs is pretty short.

I suspect the main reasons for that have little to do with their diet.

 

[BigMoaner]

Here's what the multivits I buy contain:

Spoiler

Typical Values	%RI*	Each tablet provides
Vitamin A	100	800µg RE
Vitamin D	200	10.00µg
Vitamin E	100	12.0mg α-TE
Vitamin K	100	75.0µg
Thiamin (Vitamin B1)	100	1.10mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)	100	1.40mg
Niacin	100	16.0mg NE
Pantothenic acid	100	6.0mg
Vitamin B6	100	1.40mg
Folic Acid	100	200µg
Vitamin B12	100	2.50µg
Biotin	100	50.0µg
Vitamin C	100	80mg
Calcium	25	200mg
Magnesium	27	100.0mg
Iron	100	14.0mg
Copper	100	1.00mg
Iodine	100	150.0µg
Zinc	100	10.0mg
Manganese	100	2.0mg
Selenium	100	55.0µg
Chromium	100	40µg
Molybdenum	100	50.0µg
Boron	-	0.5mg

​

​

​

I suspect the main reasons for that have little to do with their diet.

If they are proper wild they’ll be on that crack

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I think you're missing the point. Humans are going to be in the equation in one way or another.

So we feed pets based on our own preferences?

 

[two sheds]

No of course not we feed them according to scientific best practice - why would we do anything else?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

[/QUOTE]

So we feed pets based on our own preferences?

Wild dogs tend to scavenge from humans. So wild dogs would also be fed according to human food decisions.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

No of course not we feed them according to scientific best practice - why would we do anything else?

I must admit that I don’t have a pet. But I have a cat that roams onto one of my worksites that meows me to submission and so I feed.
Are you saying that I should prepare it some vegan diet rather than the cat food sold at local shops?

 

[editor]

I must admit that I don’t have a pet. But I have a cat that roams onto one of my worksites that meows me to submission and so I feed.
Are you saying that I should prepare it some vegan diet rather than the cat food sold at local shops?

I don't think anyone in this thread is proposing that cats be fed an all-vegan diet.

 

[scifisam]

I used to look after a dog who was fed a vegan diet, and she was a very happy and healthy dog who lived till 13 (not bad for a labrador) with basically no health problems till the last year of her life. I had a dog at the same time, and still fed mine meat-based food, good quality stuff, but only because the vegan food was more expensive. I really don't think either dog would have known the difference TBH, and I think if I do manage to get a dog again I'd get vegan kibble instead of meat-based.

Both dogs were allowed leftovers if they were safe for them to eat, because it's better than letting it go to waste and adds some variety of tastes and textures to their diet.

Vegetarian dogs don't really exist because dogs can't eat too much lactose anyway (they're fine with eggs - it just doesn't come up that often), so if you're feeding them a special diet it's basically going to be vegan rather than vegetarian anyway.

 

[two sheds]

I must admit that I don’t have a pet. But I have a cat that roams onto one of my worksites that meows me to submission and so I feed.
Are you saying that I should prepare it some vegan diet rather than the cat food sold at local shops?

why the fuck would I say that? Have you not read the thread outlining the differences between cats and dogs?

And are you saying you'd feed it with some cheap shit nutrient-free cat food from the local shops regardless of whether that follows scientific advice?

Two can play at your stupid game

 

[Ax^]

tbf a dog or any pet should be a inconvenience

it a self selected issue in your life

if you trying to prove a point by feed it as you would like as you don't like veg or meat


they maybe you should not have a pet


same with fucking kids