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'Vegan diets are healthier and safer for dogs' says The Guardian about University of Winchester survey

I noticed this report whilst perusing the inverse website today.

Let your dog go vegan — it could help their health and the planet

Incidentally, this website, inverse.com, is highly recommended for science reports. Its Space reports are quite good.
It's reporting the same, shitty study as the Guardian in the OP.
If you are actually wanting to know why it's so shit, Kabess post #248 outlines some of the issues with survey data and lbj in post #242 outline some of the issues with the health metrics if you didn't want to read my posts.
 
Well there's a bit of the usual nonsense. But the original survey lacked rigor so of course it was gonna get pulled apart.

TBF It doesn't seem unlikely that vegan dog food, fortified if necessary with vitamins could be a healthy diet for your average mutt but I'd defer to the experts and decent research.

Obviously as a meat eater, I'm also fine with dogs eating the bits of animals us lot tend not to as well, to save on food waist.
Which is exactly what I said, but I'd like a body of evidence please, preferably some clinical trials involving some actual dogs over a lengthy period of time.

If people actually wanted to reduce their impact on the environment, petwise - not having them is probably the best solution, but then you'd need to balance that against the psychological benefits of having companion animals for some people.
 
Only the gods know that. Could be your family member is lying to you of course, or his doctor is lying to him.
Not necessarily could just be ignorant. Both my cousin and a next door neighbor (both gp's) have told me that a lot of stuff they are taught at med school is covered in all of 10 minutes. :eek: So it maybe that the GP advised chicken or fish as they weren't fully conversant with a vegetarian diet. :(
 
You don't see the contradiction when agenda-laden posters tear apart a published survey because it fails to meet their high standards of evidence, but then they start peppering the thread with completely unverifiable tales of people they know whose fairly unique circumstances just happen to exactly mirror their own take on the discussion?

You are accusing other posters of being agenda laden?

Christ :D
 
Not necessarily could just be ignorant. Both my cousin and a next door neighbor (both gp's) have told me that a lot of stuff they are taught at med school is covered in all of 10 minutes. :eek: So it maybe that the GP advised chicken or fish as they weren't fully conversant with a vegetarian diet. :(
And yet, his advice worked!
Maybe we need squealing vegans in surgeries doling out the advice though.
 
And yet, his advice worked!
Maybe we need squealing vegans in surgeries doling out the advice though.
Never said it wouldn't work. When a GP prescribes a medication they will prescribe what they know. They will only spend the time looking up something else if the patient is allergic to the medication or one of its ingredients. If the GP isn't familiar with a vegetarian diet they will recommend what they know.
 
You are accusing other posters of being agenda laden?

Christ :D
Yes I am, and you're a prime candidate.

After all, what the fuck are you doing pissing over every single vegan-related thread with your laughably biased faux science when you profess to have no interest in it?
 
Where did I say that?
From memory, editor said my BIL must have had a shit diet to which I replied he had a veggie one. That isn't the same as me saying a veggie diet is shit. But so many lies come out of your mouth I'm not sure even you know what to believe anymore.
Yes it is, and you know it is. Perhaps you should think before you post next time.
 
Yes I am, and you're a prime candidate.

After all, what the fuck are you doing pissing over every single vegan-related thread with your laughably biased faux science when you profess to have no interest in it?
The threads you start, you mean?

The ones that are quite literally about my field of science :D
I've got literally no idea if it was every vegan thread. I can recall two prior ones that I commented on? Is that all of them?

The opinion of someone in the field who uses peer reviewed journal articles to support his argument is pseudo science now?
😂
 
This is quite funny. It's peak you. You think everyone who listens to professional advice which falls foul of your ideology have been doing so from other ideological sources other than a bloody GP! :D

'Everything in moderation' is not professional advice. It's the folk wisdom of halfwits. Should we have crack cocaine in moderation? Broken glass? Arsenic? Plutonium?
 
The threads you start, you mean?

The ones that are quite literally about my field of science :D
Oh, you're an expert on veganism, are you? What are your qualifications in this area? How many peer reviewed papers have you written about vegan diets?
 
'Everything in moderation' is not professional advice. It's the folk wisdom of halfwits. Should we have crack cocaine in moderation? Broken glass? Arsenic? Plutonium?
As a heuristic for diet, it's not a bad start. 'Some meat, not too much, and plenty of fresh fruit and vegetables' is sound advice for most people most of the time. Of course other factors come in, including how much time you have and how much money you have - reality is that most people on the planet are primarily grain eaters. Plus individuals may have various particular issues to do with things like carb intake. Substitute 'dairy' or 'eggs' for 'meat' in that initial formulation and you're fine. Take out that part and things get a bit trickier. If you want to stay healthy on a vegan diet, you need to plan things a bit and you need a little bit of help as 'fresh' alone won't quite cut it. Similarly, if you want to feed dogs a vegan diet, you're going to be reliant on purchasing products that have the appropriate fortifications added.

Saying the above isn't having an agenda. It's not being anti-vegan either. Wrt creating more sustainable farming, which is my primary interest in these issues, it is whole systems that need to be looked at. 'How should we farm?' is the question at the heart of this, or imo ought to be. That's a big and interesting question.
 
As a heuristic for diet, it's not a bad start. 'Some meat, not too much, and plenty of fresh fruit and vegetables' is sound advice for most people most of the time. Of course other factors come in, including how much time you have and how much money you have - reality is that most people on the planet are primarily grain eaters. Plus individuals may have various particular issues to do with things like carb intake. Substitute 'dairy' or 'eggs' for 'meat' in that initial formulation and you're fine. Take out that part and things get a bit trickier. If you want to stay healthy on a vegan diet, you need to plan things a bit and you need a little bit of help as 'fresh' alone won't quite cut it. Similarly, if you want to feed dogs a vegan diet, you're going to be reliant on purchasing products that have the appropriate fortifications added.

Saying the above isn't having an agenda. It's not being anti-vegan either. Wrt creating more sustainable farming, which is my primary interest in these issues, it is whole systems that need to be looked at. 'How should we farm?' is the question at the heart of this, or imo ought to be. That's a big and interesting question.
FOR FUCK'S SAKE. You're going on about fortifications again.
 
Saying the above isn't having an agenda. It's not being anti-vegan either. Wrt creating more sustainable farming, which is my primary interest in these issues, it is whole systems that need to be looked at. 'How should we farm?' is the question at the heart of this, or imo ought to be. That's a big and interesting question.

Nah, people just stop eating meat.
Job done, a cornucopia of food will then be available and all environmental degradation will cease....
 
Is this a deliberate misunderstanding of my post?

You can't honestly be serious at this point.
You said that the threads that I start are - and I quote you directly - "quite literally about my field of science."

This thread is about dogs being fed a vegan diet. So what are your qualifications in this specific area? What research have you done into vegan dog diets? Was it published anywhere?
 
wtf?

You start a thread about feeding dogs a vegan diet, and you object to someone bringing up the issue of fortifications?

Have a fucking word with yourself.
Do I have to remind of the rambling journey your mind has taken all over this thread, or the fact you end up constantly, endlessly and relentlessly repeating yourself about fucking supplements and fortifications?

And apart from one throwaway line, your last post refers exclusively to a human diet. Again.
 
You said that the threads that I start are - and I quote you directly - "quite literally about my field of science."

This thread is about dogs being fed a vegan diet. So what are your qualifications in this specific area? What research have you done into vegan dog diets? Was it published anywhere?

You don't think that animal nutrition might be something that I deal with on a fairly regular basis?

Given that I regular lecture in advanced pig, poultry and ruminant nutrition, do you not think that some of those skills are slightly cross transferable?

You don't think that I'm capable of understanding an article in this area, given my background?

You do understand that posting threads on a discussion board invites discussion don't you?

Also, you know full well that you were referring to your previous threads.
 
Do I have to remind of the rambling journey your mind has taken all over this thread, or the fact you end up constantly, endlessly and relentlessly repeating yourself about fucking supplements and fortifications?

And apart from one throwaway line, your last post refers exclusively to a human diet. Again.
What have you actually contributed? The square root of fuck all from where I'm sat.

You've been a fucking disgrace, shitting all over your own thread.
 
In the interest of an open mind I looked up the evidence for vegan diets for dogs and their ability to digest plant-based proteins and carbs etc. I can see why for some dogs at different stages in their lives it might work. I cannot see why you could claim it to be a success or a desirable diet for ALL dogs.. regardless of age, health, behaviour etc. That is nuts.

There is def a lack of real long term evidence available, but the fact remains dogs have evolved along with humans to deal with human food... hence ability to eat cereals, grains, pulses, vegetables etc. That doesnt mean this is the best option for them or the most efficient. As mentioned on a previous page, if you had a pregant or weening dog and started giving it a vegan diet youd have to be completely fucking daft.

As for the environmental impact of dog food (compared to rampant global capitalism and waste in human agriculture bla bla bla) if youre that bothered about it just dont get a fucking dog. Or stop flying. I do hope my terrible "whataboutery" doesnt trigger our resident fragile vegans too much! ;)
 
FOR FUCK'S SAKE. You're going on about fortifications again.
One of the links that has been posted in favour of vegan dog food is to the "Just be kind vegan dog food" site which wants to flog you their "Just be kind supplement" to make their vegan recipes fully nutritionally suitable for dogs. This is what their supplement contains
JUST BE KIND has been formulated by vets and nutritionists to be fully FEDIAF compliant if made using our recommended recipes. It contains the vitamins, minerals, trace elements and amino acids that are essential for dogs fed a purely plant-based diet. This ensures that the homemade recipes that we provide are fully balanced with all the important B Vitamins as well as Calcium, Taurine, L-Carnitine, Methionine, Zinc and the required amino acids and minerals that are lacking in a plant-based diet.

JUST BE KIND supplement is free from artificial additives, colourants and preservatives and has the addition of valuable pre and probiotics to support a healthy digestion in your dog.

COMPOSITION
Minerals, Chicory root extract (as a source of prebiotic fructooligosaccharide), Yeast products (as a source of prebiotic mannooligosaccharide), Bacillus velezensis (as a source of probiotic), Rapeseed oil

ANALYSIS
Crude Protein 26%, Crude Fat 1%, Crude fibre 1%, Crude Ash 34%, Calcium 6.6%, Phosphorus 4.8%, Sodium 1.1%

NUTRITIONAL ADDITIVES (per kg)
Vitamin A 40000IU, Vitamin E 400mg, Vitamin B1 109mg, Riboflavin 100mg, Vitamin B6 20mg, Vitamin B12 1000µg, Niacin 200mg, Calcium pantothenate 100mg, Folic acid 20mg, Biotin 400µg, L-Carnitine 31250mg, Choline chloride 26667mg, Iodine 10mg, Selenium 2mg, Copper 30mg, Zinc 400mg, Manganese 40mg, Iron 200mg, L-Lysine monohydrochloride 7000mg, DL-Methionine 150000mg, L-Threonine 15000mg, Taurine 31250mg, L-Tryptophan 31000mg, L-Valine 10000mg, Gut Flora Stabiliser: Bacillus velezensis (DSM 15544) 2×1011 CFU.
Still certain you don't need supplements to make vegan food suitable for dogs? Because that looks like there are shit loads of supplements needed. :(
 
One of the links that has been posted in favour of vegan dog food is to the "Just be kind vegan dog food" site which wants to flog you their "Just be kind supplement" to make their vegan recipes fully nutritionally suitable for dogs. This is what their supplement contains
Still certain you don't need supplements to make vegan food suitable for dogs? Because that looks like there are shit loads of supplements needed. :(
Whataboutery?

😂
 
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