'Vegan diets are healthier and safer for dogs' says The Guardian about University of Winchester survey

[Agent Sparrow]

View attachment 318902

Fewer chickens suffer for every pound of meat produced this way. In the future there will be one mega chicken that we slaughter every 10 years to keep animal suffering (and vegan outrage) to a minimum.

I heard a great story once about some vegetarians who kept chickens for eggs, and then acquired a rooster to breed more. But the rooster was a complete arsehole. They decided it was too much of an arsehole to ethically give away so the best thing was to kill it. And if they had to kill it, it would be unethical to not use it up…

First meat they ate in 20 years!

Spoiler: Takes the story further

E2A: just remembered the best part of the story. As part of their thinking about how to dispose of the rooster in the most ethical way, they decided they couldn’t ask someone else to deliver the killing blow so one of them did the deed

 

[Pickman's model]

I can only think of that Stone Roses one.

Iggy pop

 

[Funky_monks]

Norway recently made breeding certain dogs illegal. You're not allowed to breed any dogs knowing that you will producing puppies with health defects. British bulldogs are banned in Norway now.

This is the way forward, I think. Here in the UK, Crufts has a lot to answer for.

Completely agree - the kennel club has a hell of a lot to answer for, in my opinion.

Their attitude to breeding makes them one of the most barbaric (in terms of animal abuse) organisations out there.

 

[two sheds]

yep King Charles Spaniels particularly - often the brain is too large for the skull so they're in pain

 

[Epona]

I heard a great story once about some vegetarians who kept chickens for eggs, and then acquired a rooster to breed more. But the rooster was a complete arsehole. They decided it was too much of an arsehole to ethically give away so the best thing was to kill it. And if they had to kill it, it would be unethical to not use it up…

First meat they ate in 20 years!

Spoiler

E2A: just remembered the best part of the story. As part of their thinking about how to dispose of the rooster in the most ethical way, they decided they couldn’t ask someone else to deliver the killing blow so one of them did the deed

I have quite a lot of respect for that tbh, I mean I do eat meat, but I despair at people who want meat with every meal yet don't want to know where it comes from or how it gets to their plate. It seems fairly ethical to me that they took responsibility for the entire process themselves.

 

[tonysingh]

Completely agree - the kennel club has a hell of a lot to answer for, in my opinion.

Their attitude to breeding makes them one of the most barbaric (in terms of animal abuse) organisations out there.

yep King Charles Spaniels particularly - often the brain is too large for the skull so they're in pain

The Kennel Club and the whole thing around dog showing at that level is more rancid than a 2 day old Great Dane shit.

The Kennel Club and their breed standards have physically changed loads of dog breeds away from their original size, shape and purpose. They can go and bollocks.

Look at that poor German Shepherd that (I think) laughably won best in breed a few years back. Its back was so sloped the poor bastard couldn't walk properly. Or there's the English Bulldog which was more akin to a Pit Bull with jowls back in the day but has a host of health problems.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I heard a great story once about some vegetarians who kept chickens for eggs, and then acquired a rooster to breed more. But the rooster was a complete arsehole. They decided it was too much of an arsehole to ethically give away so the best thing was to kill it. And if they had to kill it, it would be unethical to not use it up…

First meat they ate in 20 years!

E2A: just remembered the best part of the story. As part of their thinking about how to dispose of the rooster in the most ethical way, they decided they couldn’t ask someone else to deliver the killing blow so one of them did the deed

I grew up on Harris. If you were visiting someone for dinner, it wasn't unusual to hear 'Squawk squawk thud' as the dinner was despatched.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

View attachment 318902

Fewer chickens suffer for every pound of meat produced this way. In the future there will be one mega chicken that we slaughter every 10 years to keep animal suffering (and vegan outrage) to a minimum.

I follow a sanctuary for farm animals. They often get turkeys around thanksgiving. They usually don't live the full lifespan of a turkey because their bodies get so heavy their legs can't carry them and sometimes break. Or, the bird gets so top-heavy, it just falls over and can't get up. In general, they suffer a lot of health conditions because they were never bred to live more than a few months.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I grew up on Harris. If you were visiting someone for dinner, it wasn't unusual to hear 'Squawk squawk thud' as the dinner was despatched.

I grew up like this too, and it was more humane than making them live crowded together in their own filth, only to be electrocuted and hung up on production line, to be cut up, still alive.

 

[Calamity1971]

I grew up on Harris. If you were visiting someone for dinner, it wasn't unusual to hear 'Squawk squawk thud' as the dinner was despatched.

Not sure the smiley face was appropriate.
Or the whole thing really.
How not to read the room.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Not sure the smiley face was appropriate.
Or the whole thing really.
How not to read the room.

Because that was how life was. Chickens weren't raised as pets, they were raised to provide eggs and meat. As YW said, the creatures lived a natural life, and the end was swift and painless.

I eat meat, others don't. I don't regard vegetarians as having any right to veto discussion, they are the odd ones really. The human diet has included meat for thousands of years, eschewing meat is a relatively modern fad.

To each their own, but to try and hold the moral high ground because you don't eat meat is absurd. The almond milk aficionados are ripping the planet to bits as much as meat eaters are.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I grew up on Harris. <snip>

Spoiler: Different attitudes to preparing meat in different places

I remember once when I was travelling someone ordered a chicken and the chef left the kitchen, plucked up one of the chickens happily running around outside, and walked it back to the kitchens. A while later there was some cooked chicken.

I was veggie at the time but I remember not being disturbed by it, and more pleased that the chicken had a presumably happier, chickeny life than one in the UK. This sort of thinking disturbs me more when I get the chicken nuggets out the freezer

 

[Calamity1971]

Because that was how life was. Chickens weren't raised as pets, they were raised to provide eggs and meat. As YW said, the creatures lived a natural life, and the end was swift and painless.

I eat meat, others don't. I don't regard vegetarians as having any right to veto discussion, they are the odd ones really. The human diet has included meat for thousands of years, eschewing meat is a relatively modern fad.

To each their own, but to try and hold the moral high ground because you don't eat meat is absurd. The almond milk aficionados are ripping the planet to bits as much as meat eaters are.

I'm not trying to hold the high ground. It's the wrong fucking thread for shit like that. Do you not think that's upsetting for some. Vegetarians are odd? Get fucked.

 

[scifisam]

No.
The dogs will.
Cows got ill with BSE, didn't they?
Fucking bizarre how some vegans want to force their diet on animals where its wholly inappropriate, and the intellectual reaching that they attempt to do this, if you ask me.

Fucking bizarre the lengths some meat eaters go to to try to argue a point. Dogs are not going to get ill from this. It's, frankly, something only a very stupid person would suggest. Maybe you need some supplements in your diet?

 

[Micky D]

Vegetarians are different but somewhat reasonable ... vegans - thats a mental illness right there

 

[Sasaferrato]

I'm not trying to hold the high ground. It's the wrong fucking thread for shit like that. Do you not think that's upsetting for some. Vegetarians are odd? Get fucked.

What a charming response. May I suggest you address your apparent anger issues?

I am perfectly entitled to regard vegetarians and vegans are odd, just as they are perfectly entitled to regard meat eaters as odd.

Oh, BTW, you have exactly zero entitlement not to be upset sometimes, just like everyone else.

 

[Calamity1971]

What a charming response. May I suggest you address your apparent anger issues?

I'm reading that and hearing moggs voice weirdly. I don't have anger issues thank you. I have knobhead issues, writing graphically about an animals demise is upsetting and that goes for Agent Sparrow as well.
Like I said, wrong fucking thread. If you want to start one about fond memories of hearing an animal die go for it.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I'm reading that and hearing moggs voice weirdly. I don't have anger issues thank you. I have knobhead issues, writing graphically about an animals demise is upsetting and that goes for Agent Sparrow as well.
Like I said, wrong fucking thread. If you want to start one about fond memories of hearing an animal die go for it.

You do have anger issues, and most certainly courtesy issues.

If you think that 'Squawk squawk, thud' is graphic, you must indeed be a tender plant.

Now, if you would be so kind, go and annoy someone else.

 

[Calamity1971]

you must indeed be a tender plant.

Go on sass, say it. I'm a snowflake
Off you pop and brag about how much money you have for your heating.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Go on sass, say it. I'm a snowflake
Off you pop and brag about how much money you have for your heating.

I have been nothing but polite to you, you however have been rude and aggressive.

You are now on ignore for a while.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Like I said, wrong fucking thread.

A thread about dog food is the wrong place to talk about food dogs eat?

 

[tonysingh]

This thread has taken a bizarre fucking turn.

 

[Calamity1971]

You are now on ignore for a while

And I'm the ' tender plant' ?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Completely agree - the kennel club has a hell of a lot to answer for, in my opinion.

Their attitude to breeding makes them one of the most barbaric (in terms of animal abuse) organisations out there.

Things are improving, hopefully. At least it is questioned now. I remember watching Crufts on TV as a kid and it was just one of those things that punctuate the year, from the Grand National to Chelsea Flower Show - kind of the 'official' events of the year that weren't questioned. At least the BBC decided to ditch it.

As a kid, I loved watching the obstacle course racing. The dogs clearly loved doing it as well. That was the only bit that grabbed me. Aside from anything else, the inspection of breeds just seemed a very odd thing to care about. Still does. And to do it knowing you're producing animals that are in various kinds of pain? Well that's beyond odd.

 

[Calamity1971]

A thread about dog food is the wrong place to talk about food dogs eat?

Yes, dogs eat chicken. I don't think memories of yore and how said chicken died was really adding anything to the discussion.

 

[Funky_monks]

Fucking bizarre the lengths some meat eaters go to to try to argue a point. Dogs are not going to get ill from this. It's, frankly, something only a very stupid person would suggest. Maybe you need some supplements in your diet?

They didn't think cattle would get ill from eating meat derived products either.

This is why feeding animals diets utterly unlike their natural ones is a bad idea - hence a precautionary principle.

Only an incredibly stupid person would try to justify feeding a carnivorous animal a diet composed entirely of plants.

 

[Funky_monks]

I eat meat, others don't. I don't regard vegetarians as having any right to veto discussion, they are the odd ones really. The human diet has included meat for thousands of years, eschewing meat is a relatively modern fad.

The hominid diet has been meat based for an awful lot longer than that:
Humans were apex predators for two million years, study finds: What did our ancestors eat during the stone age? Mostly meat

Also, before "it's just one study": its a metanalysis, ie combines findings from numerous studies.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

tbf I would characterise that a little differently. One key factor in human success in spreading around the planet was the flexibility of the human diet. We're not dependent on one kind of diet.

Also, of course, the way humans got themselves organised to hunt the megafauna of northern climes was catastrophic for the species concerned. It's generally accepted that mammoths went extinct because of humans. We've been pretty destructive for at least the last 80,000 years.

 

[Sasaferrato]

yep King Charles Spaniels particularly - often the brain is too large for the skull so they're in pain

That is really grim.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I'm reading that and hearing moggs voice weirdly. I don't have anger issues thank you. I have knobhead issues, writing graphically about an animals demise is upsetting and that goes for Agent Sparrow as well.
Like I said, wrong fucking thread. If you want to start one about fond memories of hearing an animal die go for it.

So I’ve put any details in spoilers now in respect for different sensibilities, because it’s really not much effort and I’m not a dickhead.

But conversely, I really would not call either of my descriptions “graphic” or written insensitively; maybe quite blunt but nothing as unpleasant as a handful of other comments on the thread. And on a thread about veganism and health/ethics, it’s not exactly a derail to reflect on situations where there’s more transparency about where meat comes from and people’s thinking through of those issues. As Epona said, it’s actually quite positive and even admirable to openly acknowledge where meat comes from if you eat it. And if you did find me too upfront, I guess I didn’t want to wrap it up in euphemisms for those reasons.