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US election 2020 thread

Dems seem to be going with impeachment this week but leaving the senate hearing well into Biden's period. In fact one of the Dem House whips was talking about giving Biden 'a 100 days' to get business done first (presumably his nominations). 100 days may have been metaphorical, but certainly a while. At one level that looks like a bad idea as the issue will be less 'hot' and GOPers in the senate will find it easier to vote against impeachment. Equally, it might be a good move as it gives more time to uncover/start the prosecution of more and more loons and to discover more links to the trump cabal.
 
Wilf said:
Dems seem to be going with impeachment this week but leaving the senate hearing well into Biden's period. In fact one of the Dem House whips was talking about giving Biden 'a 100 days' to get business done first (presumably his nominations). 100 days may have been metaphorical, but certainly a while. At one level that looks like a bad idea as the issue will be less 'hot' and GOPers in the senate will find it easier to vote against impeachment. Equally, it might be a good move as it gives more time to uncover/start the prosecution of more and more loons and to discover more links to the trump cabal.
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Think a big factor may be that impeaching an ex-president could be open to legal challenge, so they need to get it done pronto.
 
Raheem said:
Think a big factor may be that impeaching an ex-president could be open to legal challenge, so they need to get it done pronto.
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I'd quite like to see Rudy Giuliani in action again. :oldthumbsup:

Suppose the other thing is there will also be a slightly different balance in the Senate after the 20th, with a Dem casting vote. Unlikely to be enough to push them up to 2/3 though, unless the wilder fringes of qanon-trumpery do something ahem, explosive, by then.
 
cloudyday said:
Did you actually read the post you quoted by Serge Forward?

Rather than having them booted out of the union (and creating a scab force), anti fascist dockers argued with them for workers unity (whether black or white). It had some success.

That's a better position to take imo. It's a living breathing thing, not a piece of paper with a load of bullet points on it.
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Id like to think people talk and convince when it's time for talking and turn to due process when it's time for that. Not mutually exclusive. I am wary of the 'tyranny of structuralness". Due process usually gives people a chance, unless they've really crossed the line

The big issue here in this thread generally and beyond is how do you talk to people and change their minds. What does it take? Seems so central to me, but rarely talked about in any detail
 
What happenex to the " trump bang or whimper" thread? Was thinking that we need a separate thread for enjoying the spiralling collapse of the repulsive gobshite and his dwindling band.
This thread might be useful for follow up on any insight into the results, who voted and why and any interesting stories that come out about the campaign.
 
Somebody has had a go at drilling into what other beliefs are held by the group of republicans who say the approve of what happened on 6th, and it’s pretty interesting. The number one predictor is believing untruths about covid (details in thread).
 
Crispy said:
What does the cultist get out of their relationship with the cult leader? Validation, a sense of belonging, a source of truth.
This thing is a cult without leaders, or rather it is a cult where everyone is a leader to everyone else. Decentralised. Impossible to stamp out.
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With Qanon, I’d add to this that it offers hope, it’s always two weeks until the great cataclysm, total vindication and the triumph of good over evil.
 
Wilf said:
Suppose the other thing is there will also be a slightly different balance in the Senate after the 20th, with a Dem casting vote. Unlikely to be enough to push them up to 2/3 though, unless the wilder fringes of qanon-trumpery do something ahem, explosive, by then.
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Do you think so? This is pretty much just me going off "I reckon" rather than any kind of detailed analysis of the positions of individual Senate Republicans or anything, but I would think that there might well still be enough Republicans who want to be seen as saying that what happened on the 6th was definitely bad and over the line that they could deliver the extra votes needed for impeachment. Like, I wouldn't have thought we would arrive at a situation where people seem to be seriously speculating about whether Mike Pence of all people would be pushing to remove Trump, but here we are - that signals a pretty major realignment among Republican politicians, if not necessarily their base, imo.
 
bimble said:
Somebody has had a go at drilling into what other beliefs are held by the group of republicans who say the approve of what happened on 6th, and it’s pretty interesting. The number one predictor is believing untruths about covid (details in thread).
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Hotly followed by wanting the disintegration of the US as presently constituted...
 
hitmouse said:
Do you think so? This is pretty much just me going off "I reckon" rather than any kind of detailed analysis of the positions of individual Senate Republicans or anything, but I would think that there might well still be enough Republicans who want to be seen as saying that what happened on the 6th was definitely bad and over the line that they could deliver the extra votes needed for impeachment. Like, I wouldn't have thought we would arrive at a situation where people seem to be seriously speculating about whether Mike Pence of all people would be pushing to remove Trump, but here we are - that signals a pretty major realignment among Republican politicians, if not necessarily their base, imo.
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It's going to be a tug of war between wanting to distance themselves as far as possible from the Trump position, while not distancing themselves from the Party, and those voters who got them into office in the first place.
 
Wilf said:
Dems seem to be going with impeachment this week but leaving the senate hearing well into Biden's period. In fact one of the Dem House whips was talking about giving Biden 'a 100 days' to get business done first (presumably his nominations). 100 days may have been metaphorical, but certainly a while. At one level that looks like a bad idea as the issue will be less 'hot' and GOPers in the senate will find it easier to vote against impeachment. Equally, it might be a good move as it gives more time to uncover/start the prosecution of more and more loons and to discover more links to the trump cabal.
Click to expand...

If they're serious about it (unlikely I know) that would give time to interview all the relevant people Trump has pardoned now that they have no right to silence any more.
 
existentialist said:
It's going to be a tug of war between wanting to distance themselves as far as possible from the Trump position, while not distancing themselves from the Party, and those voters who got them into office in the first place.
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This, A lot of them are caught between a rock and a hard place. They need to keep up their Trumpist credentials in order to avoid being primaried whilst they must realise Trumpism doesn't play well with the wider electorate. It's going to be quite the tightrope act for a lot of them. Hopefully a lot of them wil fall off trying it.
 
MickiQ said:
This, A lot of them are caught between a rock and a hard place. They need to keep up their Trumpist credentials in order to avoid being primaried whilst they must realise Trumpism doesn't play well with the wider electorate. It's going to be quite the tightrope act for a lot of them. Hopefully a lot of them wil fall off trying it.
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The delay to the vote gives them the chance to see which way the wind is blowing doesn't it. If it looks like the Trumpists are either breaking with Trump as he's let them down or breaking with the Republicans altogether as they've let him down, then they might feel more confident in voting against him.
 
MickiQ said:
This, A lot of them are caught between a rock and a hard place. They need to keep up their Trumpist credentials in order to avoid being primaried whilst they must realise Trumpism doesn't play well with the wider electorate. It's going to be quite the tightrope act for a lot of them. Hopefully a lot of them wil fall off trying it.
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In Matt Gaetz's case, literally falling off would be nice...
 
ska invita said:
Id like to think people talk and convince when it's time for talking and turn to due process when it's time for that. Not mutually exclusive. I am wary of the 'tyranny of structuralness". Due process usually gives people a chance, unless they've really crossed the line

The big issue here in this thread generally and beyond is how do you talk to people and change their minds. What does it take? Seems so central to me, but rarely talked about in any detail
Click to expand...

my point was that there should always be something before resorting to due process, and that discussing issues should always be the focus first. It’s not about absolutism.
 
The NUT defended Colin Jordan's job and union membership when he first came to prominence. Then, having established a) their autonomy and freedom of action from local authorities and bosses b) their willingness to defend their members against the same - they expelled him for "conduct detrimental to the interests and honour of the teaching profession and the union" on the basis that his beliefs, if put into practice, constituted an attack on the NUT members and the teaching profession. Thus establishing c) the right to police members views and d) Possibly have their cake and eat it too.
 
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Parler.com is gone and people are claiming to have hacked it very comprehensively and downloaded everything that the admin system had as well as all posts just before it went down. Thing is it was all there to see for weeks and months and if only now the fbi or whoever decide to interpret these things, like let’s hang mike pence etc, as serious instead of just shitposting idk if that’s any kind of good news.
 
bimble said:
Parler.com is gone and people are claiming to have hacked it very comprehensively and downloaded everything that the admin system had as well as all posts just before it went down,
Click to expand...

To what end? I mean why did anyone want a permanent record of what patriot_warlord297 thinks about a pizza restaurant in New York?
 
bimble said:
Parler.com is gone and people are claiming to have hacked it very comprehensively and downloaded everything that the admin system had as well as all posts just before it went down. Thing is it was all there to see for weeks and months and if only now the fbi or whoever decide to interpret these things, like let’s hang mike pence etc, as serious instead of just shitposting idk if that’s any kind of good news.
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Funny stuff...

Parler has been online since 2018, and may return if it can find an alternative host.

However, chief executive John Matze told Fox News on Sunday that "every vendor from text message services to email providers to our lawyers all ditched us too".

"We're going to try our best to get back online as quickly as possible, but we're having a lot of trouble because every vendor we talk to says they won't work with us because if Apple doesn't approve and Google doesn't approve, they won't," he added.
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www.bbc.co.uk

Parler social network sues Amazon for pulling support

The social network has hit back asking a federal judge to order it to be reinstated.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
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