SheilaNaGig
Break requested
Because it’s serves the system.
US election 2020 thread
- Thread starter petee
- Start date
I have been following all this and looked at the litigation filed in Georgia by Powell. I have also been reading some of the more balanced/thoughtful commentary on it, both from Republicans and Democrats. In the interests of full disclosure/transparency, I am British, but of the two presidential candidates, I would personally lean more towards Trump - if I had to vote for one or the other.
I don't agree with the apparent general view here that the Trump claims are entirely a 'joke'. If the Powell filings are taken at face value, there is evidence to back up some of the more moderate claims being made by the Trump camp and also emanating independently from Powell, however it looks like they don't - so far - have before the court any evidence of actual specific acts of fraud. Rather, the allegations concern electoral irregularities and procedural lapses, and these seem to be an exceptional trend on a county-to-county basis in Georgia and not found across-the-board.
In Pennsylvania, the Republican-controlled state legislature (both House and Senate) has put a spanner in the works, but it appears the federal judiciary has knocked Trump back. The crucial issue there is whether state certification is solely for the state executive (under Democratic control) or for the legislature to override if the elections are 'contested elections', having issued Section 13, Article VII resolutions (as required under the Pennsylvania state constitution). One would need to look at Pennsylvania statutes and maybe common law on the question, as the constitution is silent on this specific point.
So far (my view may change with further developments), it does seem, at least to me, rather unlikely that Trump can upturn the whole election, due to the lack of specific evidence of fraud; but, one point that bears repeating is that Trump does not technically have to upturn the popular ballot. All he needs to do is cast doubt on the result in maybe two or three states that have sufficient Electoral College votes to drag Biden below the 270 threshold, as this would then (probably) force a contingent election in Congress.
Probably this rather extreme eventuality will not happen, but I am not dismissing the possibility altogether. It could happen. In any event, I think the whole thing will culminate in a showdown in the Supreme Court over the electoral methodologies of a handful of critical states, and that judgment will in effect decide whether the United States has to resort to contingent ballots in the legislature.
I don't agree with the apparent general view here that the Trump claims are entirely a 'joke'. If the Powell filings are taken at face value, there is evidence to back up some of the more moderate claims being made by the Trump camp and also emanating independently from Powell, however it looks like they don't - so far - have before the court any evidence of actual specific acts of fraud. Rather, the allegations concern electoral irregularities and procedural lapses, and these seem to be an exceptional trend on a county-to-county basis in Georgia and not found across-the-board.
In Pennsylvania, the Republican-controlled state legislature (both House and Senate) has put a spanner in the works, but it appears the federal judiciary has knocked Trump back. The crucial issue there is whether state certification is solely for the state executive (under Democratic control) or for the legislature to override if the elections are 'contested elections', having issued Section 13, Article VII resolutions (as required under the Pennsylvania state constitution). One would need to look at Pennsylvania statutes and maybe common law on the question, as the constitution is silent on this specific point.
So far (my view may change with further developments), it does seem, at least to me, rather unlikely that Trump can upturn the whole election, due to the lack of specific evidence of fraud; but, one point that bears repeating is that Trump does not technically have to upturn the popular ballot. All he needs to do is cast doubt on the result in maybe two or three states that have sufficient Electoral College votes to drag Biden below the 270 threshold, as this would then (probably) force a contingent election in Congress.
Probably this rather extreme eventuality will not happen, but I am not dismissing the possibility altogether. It could happen. In any event, I think the whole thing will culminate in a showdown in the Supreme Court over the electoral methodologies of a handful of critical states, and that judgment will in effect decide whether the United States has to resort to contingent ballots in the legislature.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Yeah whatever.
eatmorecheese
He's fallen out of the car again
Thanks for the mature responses. It's good to find intelligent people who can debate topics.
Clive Motorboat
Lumberjack Duncan Goodhew
The only real question is where next for Trump? Will it be an alternate media network that can act as a base for his family and friends to push their ideology?
gosub
~#
nah, events. In a couple of weeks, US will be at 3rd wave peak 200,00 cases and 2,000 dieing a day. Biden's transition team will to itching to do something (can't til 20/1). Trump tweeting what his lawyers are going to do about the election and playing golf sees him marginalising his base. Most covid cases are in red states.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
I mean, Biden's an arse but why would you personally lean more towards Trump? The white supremacy, misogyny, racism and antisemitism doesn't put you off at all?
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
They are, but that isn't likely to marginalize his base - its been expensively educated for many decades into believing what happens to it (loss of jobs, loss of wealth, loss of opportunities for ones kids, loss of status and even loss of life in the more extreme examples) is something that is going to be happening and only the leadership (political and religious) can stop it.
Red states could be losing 10000 people a day and none of that would be challenged; they'd just blame people from blue states or (more likely) illegals.
prunus
Tick tock.
Haven’t, I’m a bit crap at absorbing info from podcasts. Also seem to have veered off down a tangent now into being more interested in Qanon (as phenomenon) than whats actually going on day to day in the real world.
Take care gazing into the abyss, for the abyss will gaze back into you.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
I don't think the supreme court will be listening to Trump and friends.
The courts require some type of proof, and there is none.
Welcome to U75
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
These are quite good examples: 12 times Trump really did say that awful, racist thing you thought had to be fake news
You really personally lean towards Trump? How do you feel about these statements?
bimble
floofy
Me too.
Being a nosy person i just tried to search the posting history of our new friend who remains hopeful that the election may be overturned and all i can see by way of clues is that they appeared in midsummer to be of the opinion that covid is not real, or at least people shouldn't be afraid of it. So maybe thats why it likes the donald, because donald too didn't buy into the whole lets take the pandemic seriously schtick.
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maomao
普費斯
No. He's not that one with a similar name and lots of weird stuff about China. Looks like a straight up uk right-winger (and tbf even said so).
Dr Jill Jim of the Navajo Department of Health has been named as joining Biden’s Covid-19 advisory board. The Navajo Nation has been heavily affected by Covid and only a total lockdown has had any effect on the spread of the virus. This is also a possible acknowledgment of the support of the Navajo Nation in securing Biden’s victory in Arizona.
www.azcentral.com
Navajo Nation's Jill Jim named to President-elect Joe Biden's\u00a0COVID-19 Advisory Board
Jill Jim, executive director of the Navajo Department of Health, has been selected as a member\u00a0of President-elect Joe Biden's\u00a0COVID-19 Advisory Board.
www.azcentral.com
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bimble
floofy
I'm confused about something:
This narrative of the Radical Left & Actual Communists coming to take away your America, where did that come from?
I mean has it been like this all the time (did Obama & Clinton also get called radical Left communists and i just didn't know) or did Trumpism create that story somehow.
For instance this, quite typical: Truth-Seeking Americans Have the Moral High Ground
The idea is everywhere and so much of this stuff reads like we are back in the 1950s , full on reds under the bed. With just zero basis in reality, at all.
How come this is happening and is there anything more behind it than just trump / the republicans trying to terrify people into voting for them else they'll all end up wearing mao suits and not be allowed to love jesus anymore.
This narrative of the Radical Left & Actual Communists coming to take away your America, where did that come from?
I mean has it been like this all the time (did Obama & Clinton also get called radical Left communists and i just didn't know) or did Trumpism create that story somehow.
For instance this, quite typical: Truth-Seeking Americans Have the Moral High Ground
The idea is everywhere and so much of this stuff reads like we are back in the 1950s , full on reds under the bed. With just zero basis in reality, at all.
How come this is happening and is there anything more behind it than just trump / the republicans trying to terrify people into voting for them else they'll all end up wearing mao suits and not be allowed to love jesus anymore.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That paper was established quite literally as an anti-Communist paper/anti-CCP/front though. It's been doing that since day one.
gosub
~#
Unfortunately, the way the government has gone about this there is so much dissonance, its half done the job. But its cockup and shortsighted opputunism at that core rather than anything else
maomao
普費斯
Have you read any editorials in The Daily Mail ever? They often refer to Tony Blair as a 'marxist'. I think a) you're reading more right wing sources and b) right wing sources that were previously completely 'out there' have become somewhat normalised.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
exactly - how long have they been banging on about "Common Purpose" now?
bimble
floofy
I.. see. Yep mostly just me being unaware then. it definitely works, some people seem genuinely terrified of this Radical Left which joe biden is a front for.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
The Epoch Times is a propaganda mouthpiece for the Falun Gong cult. They've got a problem with communism because of the CCP oppressing them. Despite being oppressed themselves they're a nasty bunch of racists. This video is a pretty good intro:
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