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Urban v's the Commentariat

Yes this is the core of their argument. And it's wrong in a number of ways in one sentence. Firstly, people's sex lives behind their bedroom doors are part of their "real" lives and can very often be abusive. Secondly, the bedroom door is not an airtight seal between one part of people's lives and another. Thirdly, these same people are very keen on the idea that every other "escapist fantasy" in the media does actually matter. And fourthly, when it comes to filmed porn, the "escapist fantasy" is someone's job. ie someone is precisely being "treated like a gimp by their boss" so some twitter radical with a libertarian streak when it comes to the sex industry can have an empowering wank.

But the argument isn't that abuse doesn't happen in the bedroom, it's that things like S&M and role play aren't abusive or damaging in themselves when done in a consensual manner. Vanilla sex can be every bit as abusive. The point being that the content of the sex isn't the issue it's the consensual form.

And no it's not airtight, an abusive relationship outside the bedroom probably feeds into it and vice versa but a consentual respectful sex life involved s&m etc doesn't generally flow into actual sadism and masochism in day to day life, most people are able to distinguish role play from reality and don't find themselves referring to their partner as a worthless little worm in the middle of a dinner party because of some weird shit they got up to the night before.

The issue then is are certain forms of sex oppressive and damaging even when done in a consensual and respectful manner and within the wider context of respectful relations loving or otherwise?

The someones job issue is important and yes I agree this is where a lot of pro sex feminism falls down, you simply can't talk seriously of respectful relations and full consent within such a context. I do think though that this blindspot is due to a desire to throw off the stigma of sex and sex work, not to mention some of the problematic patronising depictions of sex workers as fallen women, needing to be saved. Of course what this ends up doing is ignoring the fact that many women that do end up in the sex industry are in very vulnerable/desperate positions because the stigma around such work means most women (not all) with alternatives wouldn't go near it.

Have to say though your last line is pretty catholic, afterall "someone is precisely being "treated like a gimp by their boss" so some twitter radical can have a pair of trainers and a mobile phone etc".
 
I see Richard Seymour (Lenin's Tomb) has fallen foul of the intersectional twitteristas.
http://thecharnelhouse.org/2014/01/23/live-by-intersectionality-die-by-intersectionality/
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What's an Otherkin? Sounds like some Lord of the Rings shite. Does this relate to the bedroom fantasy stuff? I'm ever so confused. :confused:
 
They're all identities I guess, and as such can in the minds of certain people be equally subject to oppression.

But it's not though, it's not like someone calling someone a paki or a kike or something is it or someone denying those people jobs on the basis of their skin colour etc, their kids having reduced opportunities, casual racism in society, scapegoating, racist/homophobic attacks etc, it's someone complaining coz the fact that they think they're a dragon isn't taken seriously. Dragons don't exist ffs it's bollocks and they're either mentally ill and need help or are taking the piss.
 
But it's not though, it's not like someone calling someone a paki or a kike or something is it or someone denying those people jobs on the basis of their skin colour etc, their kids having reduced opportunities, casual racism in society, scapegoating, racist/homophobic attacks etc, it's someone complaining coz the fact that they think they're a dragon isn't taken seriously. Dragons don't exist ffs it's bollocks and they're either mentally ill and need help or are taking the piss.
I know, I was trying to see it from their perspective, misguided as it is. FWIW I don't think they're either mentally ill or taking the piss (altho some undoubtedly are and do). It's no worse than believing that Jesus loves you. From a rational/logical standpoint that is.
 
They're all identities I guess, and as such can in the minds of certain people be equally subject to oppression.

They cant though!!

take homophobia, it's possible for two gay men to get viciously attacked in the street, to have people suspecting them of being paedos, to have people refuse to rent rooms to them and not get jobs on the basis of sexuality, to get told in school homosexuality is a sin etc, someone thinking they're a dragon is in no way in the same category coz its a movement that emerged on the internet in the last 20 years.
 
They cant though!!

take homophobia, it's possible for two gay men to get viciously attacked in the street, to have people suspecting them of being paedos, to have people refuse to rent rooms to them and not get jobs on the basis of sexuality, to get told in school homosexuality is a sin etc, someone thinking they're a dragon is in no way in the same category coz its a movement that emerged on the internet in the last 20 years.
:D For the last time - I'm not defending them!
 
:D For the last time - I'm not defending them!

when was the last time that someone got attacked in the street because of thinking they're a dragon? when was the last time their beliefs about being a dragon stopped them getting a job or people got forced out of their homes and killed etc coz they think they're dragons?
never.

it's made up bullshit on the internet. and if someone is treated badly on that basis it's because of how mental illness is treated in society and millions of other mentally ill people go through the same thing.
 
when was the last time that someone got attacked in the street because of thinking they're a dragon? when was the last time their beliefs about being a dragon stopped them getting a job or people got forced out of their homes and killed etc coz they think they're dragons?
never.

it's made up bullshit on the internet. and if someone is treated badly on that basis it's because of how mental illness is treated in society and millions of other mentally ill people go through the same thing.

I don't know about never. And I'm not sure I wanna call all otherkin mentally ill either. There are the makings of a truly outrageous religion in this movement. And why does it matter if it the otherkin community started on the internet?
 
...and they mean it.
Oh yes, I've seen people having 20 page hissy fits about how oppressed they were by people refusing to accept their identity as dragons (or elves - the other popular otherkin type) - keeping in character throughout. Quite impressive, if only it weren't on a par with a 4 year old claiming that she's a horse.
 
People who believe they're not actually human, but vampires, were-animals and such. Dragons tend to be popular in much the same way that everyone was a king in a past life.

Or animals. I looked this up when it was mentioned a while ago on here - my favourite one was some girl who thought she was really a cat and was being oppressed by her parents because they wanted her to take a bath.

TBF that might have been someone taking the piss - it's impossible to tell.
 
I don't know about never. And I'm not sure I wanna call all otherkin mentally ill either. There are the makings of a truly outrageous religion in this movement. And why does it matter if it the otherkin community started on the internet?

what's the religious part of it?
 
what's the religious part of it?
It's starting to take on some religious aspects - worship of supernatural entities, magic rituals, and of course theres' the communal aspects of it as well.

Found this quote that made me laugh - it's about Tumblr mostly, but still

There's a sharp division between the activists who believe their ethical and ideological commitments require them to accept to be open to any professed identity — and those who think that in the absence of structural oppression, cisgendered white people claiming to be gay Korean cats aren't just playing fantasy games but also undermining the strength of the movement by taking it to a bizarre conclusion.

edit - link http://gawker.com/5940947/from-othe...o-the-weird-world-of-tumblr-identity-politics
 
It's starting to take on some religious aspects - worship of supernatural entities, magic rituals, and of course theres' the communal aspects of it as well.

Found this quote that made me laugh - it's about Tumbl mostly, but still

Supporting a football team can also be a sort of religion though. And people have been attacked for wearing wycombe scarves and being wycombe wanderers fans, they've probably been discriminated against at work etc but there's no intersectional movement about that :(
 
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