Urban v's the Commentariat

[revol68]

WSM adjust their positions to the situation, what bastards

Basically they're not purists who slag off and refuse to engage with the 99% of active people who don't share their politics.

Yes but all the while they claim to be a tight cohesive Platformist group whose role it is to maintain hard learnt political positions against the inherent reformism of anarcho syndicalism etc

You can't very well denounce syndicalism as inherently reformist and as such in need of tightly organised body of anarchists to battle opportunist and reformist ideas but then actually turn round and campaign for a candidate for SIPTU's General Secretary, or for that matter endorse works councils that seek to co opt workers struggles.

My many issues with the WSM are long and boring but needless to say I'm not surprised to see Andrew Flood out there constructing strawmen arguments about nostalgic lefties in order to make the WSM look more appealling to latest the trend that's blown in.

 

[jacobian]

The reason the WSM was less bad than most anarchism in the English speaking world was precisely because it neither succumbed to the latest fad nor to anarcho-purism. Both are extent elsewhere and demonstrate just how absolutely worthless would be taking revol68's advice. Neither should one take revol68's account seriously as it is based more on message-board-rumour than truth.

In my estimation, the real problems with the WSM had more to do with inherent limitations of anarchism. Once economic crisis hit, a number of serious members were forced into reflection on where we were going.

 

[revol68]

Really the WSM moved from a tight membership with a reading list and everything short of a entrance exam to join to an anti capitalist free for all, which would be fair enough if they didn't pretend to still be platformist in any meaningful sense. Anarchists arguing for nationalisation of resources seems pretty faddish to me.

 

[Pickman's model]

In my estimation, the real problems with the WSM had more to do with inherent limitations of anarchism.

and these are?

 

[butchersapron]

If you didn't realise that anarchism would have to be reflected on in the bad times as well as the good then maybe you weren't taking it that seriously before? Or maybe the relentless search for short-cut activism outlined in your (?) piece Jacobian meant you didn't have the opportunity to do so - which i find amazing given what seemed to me at the time to be an obsession with having a position on every single question (and possible questions!) ever. Maybe those position papers ended up being the possession of the leading members so there was little input from others i don't know, but i was under the impression that these papers were the result of that reflection that you say it took the crisis to provoke.

 

[Steel Icarus]

There's this weird idea that to be an anti-poverty activist you have to live in a shoe.

V efficient way of maintaining status quo; anyone from a marginalised group gets a platform, she can be immediately disregarded

If the left spent half the energy attacking the right as it did itself, the world would be pretty different...

Textbook.

 

[butchersapron]

Is helen lewis calling herself an anti-poverty activist now?

 

[Steel Icarus]

think she's on about Jack Monroe and her Sainsbury advert.

 

[butchersapron]

Ah right. Was going to say. I'll ask her at the PD new statesman occupation in new year just to maker sure.

 

[Steel Icarus]

now there's a lovely convo going on between hasan, lewis and mensch about not being "allowed" to call yourself "left" if you've ever been to private school, Oxbridge, or drank in Starbucks. these people are ridiculous but crucially all in it together

 

[rekil]

Ah right. Was going to say. I'll ask her at the PD new statesman occupation in new year just to maker sure.

The offices are on the 7th floor. This represents a significant challenge. Or an interesting banner drop and siege opportunity.

 

[Bakunin]

Is helen lewis calling herself an anti-poverty activist now?

And has the New Statesman deigned to recognise the NUJ or any other union yet?

 

[DaveCinzano]

The offices are on the 7th floor. This represents a significant challenge. Or an interesting banner drop and siege opportunity.

DROP BOMBS
NOT BANNERS​

 

[butchersapron]

Open drop off/delivery/parking hatch round the back on carmelite street - that should allow access to next door roof - fire stairs etc

 

[Idris2002]

Maybe you should take this to PMs, folks.

 

[el-ahrairah]

So have we had Tory wife Amelia Gentleman's wonderful guardian article on the effects of Coalition cuts mentioned on this thread yet?

this whole what is to be done schtick from someone who is, quite literally, sleeping with the enemy. soundly, on a bed paid for by the taxpayer. FUCK OFF, FUCK OFF, FUCK OFF.

 

[frogwoman]

check your clean privilege, shower-taking oppressors http://thisiscleanprivilege.tumblr.com/

Clean privilege is never having your smell described as a reason why people genuinely dislike you. I came across the following line in Kurt Vonnegut’s novel Slaughterhouse-Five: “He had been unpopular because he was stupid and fat and mean, and smelled like bacon no matter how much he washed.” I still have a lot to read, but this describes the only villain in the novel so far. He’s a rude, violent, insecure man who fantasizes about homicide and bestiality, but the main problem is his smell.

 

[frogwoman]

Clean privilege is works of fiction set in medieval times showing everyone covered in exaggerated amounts of dirt. In the language of media, ‘dirt’ has been constructed as shorthand for ‘backwards’ and ‘uncivilised,’ which in a wider context reinforces notions of filthphobia in the minds of those who consume this media, contributing to systemic oppression on the whole.
Clean privilege is the royalty and nobility in medieval dramas being portrayed as much cleaner than the peasantry even though historical evidence points at them also not bathing. Problematic ideas like this tie cleanliness with class, and fuel both hygiene-based oppression and class-based oppression.

 

[jacobian]

and these are?

http://spiritofcontradiction.eu/rowan-duffy/2013/08/03/why-i-am-no-longer-an-anarchist

 

[jacobian]

If you didn't realise that anarchism would have to be reflected on in the bad times as well as the good then maybe you weren't taking it that seriously before? Or maybe the relentless search for short-cut activism outlined in your (?) piece Jacobian meant you didn't have the opportunity to do so - which i find amazing given what seemed to me at the time to be an obsession with having a position on every single question (and possible questions!) ever. Maybe those position papers ended up being the possession of the leading members so there was little input from others i don't know, but i was under the impression that these papers were the result of that reflection that you say it took the crisis to provoke.

Well the WSM was growing in advance of the 2008 financial crisis. The scale of calamity was a wake-up call that this growth would not amount to much unless there was a phase change in our approach. In retrospect it's clear to me that anarchism would never be up to such a challenge, but it took me a good while after I left and a lot of casting around before I decided what might be.

The position papers were from the 1990s with a few modifications in the 2000s mostly by Andrew Flood. There was very little connection between the political activity and the position papers, and very few members actually read them (although I myself was under some confusion about this having read them all in advance of joining).

 

[butchersapron]

Well the WSM was growing in advance of the 2008 financial crisis. The scale of calamity was a wake-up call that this growth would not amount to much unless there was a phase change in our approach. In retrospect it's clear to me that anarchism would never be up to such a challenge, but it took me a good while after I left and a lot of casting around before I decided what might be.

The position papers were from the 1990s with a few modifications in the 2000s mostly by Andrew Flood. There was very little connection between the political activity and the position papers, and very few members actually read them (although I myself was under some confusion about this having read them all in advance of joining).

I think maybe more non-members read them than members Which isn't to criticise the positions.

 

[J Ed]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/how-the-media-will-report-the-apocalypse

This is the best one

 

[Idris2002]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/how-the-media-will-report-the-apocalypse

This is the best one

So that's what LLETSA looks like.

And this is the best one -

Spoiler

 

[DaveCinzano]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/how-the-media-will-report-the-apocalypse

Has anyone told Laura?

 

[butchersapron]

So that's what LLETSA looks like.

And this is the best one -

Yes 'you did'

 

[butchersapron]

**

 

[Pickman's model]

http://spiritofcontradiction.eu/rowan-duffy/2013/08/03/why-i-am-no-longer-an-anarchist

tbh i find that really rather disappointing. it doesn't point to 'the limitations of anarchism', rather pointing rather more to your limitations, assuming you're the author of that unfortunate piece.

 

[Idris2002]

Yes 'you did'

Where is your precious balsamic vinegar now, eh?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

As we've been talking about the WSM, they've just put out a conference report:

1) they are in the process of officially adopting intersectionalism
2) their free paper is now dead.


They sometimes give out membership figures in these sort of articles, but not on this occasion.

 

[revol68]

Flood is a shameless prat.