Ukip - why are they gaining support?
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redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Assuming that the final result is something like that then I wonder if Cameron will really start to see some pressure on his leadership. I mean there's been the odd silly article but there's not been much serious danger so far this parliament, I guess part of the reason for the lack of speculation is the fact that there don't seem to be any non-mental potential candidates.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
I found this retweeted on my timeline.
Delusional or what? How is Farage "working class" when he's a former public schoolboy and the ex-commodity trading son of a stockbroker?
Delusional or what? How is Farage "working class" when he's a former public schoolboy and the ex-commodity trading son of a stockbroker?
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gosub
~#
Whilst true (in relation to the survey linked to) its a low figure for all of them though 1% consider Cameron working class so they must of interviewed some very posh people
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
What that survey also shows us is an ignorance of the definition of the social classes (ones relation to capital).
This one's in denial/confused.
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Think about the people that vote for him: rich old cunts in their castles who don't want their moats cleaned except by foreigners while complaining about foreigners and womens rights and haviong to pay decent wages.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Are there a lot of those in Rotherham?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I'm aware that might not have been an entirely serious post but, nonetheless, that's a pretty inaccurate perception of UKIP's support base. Last March 'YouGov' analysed polling data to address the issue and found:-
- 60% of UKIP’s current supporters voted Conservative in 2010 – a clear majority, but far from everyone. Just 12% voted UKIP last time. Small minorities voted Labour or, more likely, Liberal Democrat. (There’s nothing new in supporters from the pro-EU Lib Dems switching to the anti-EU UKIP – they are the kind of Lib Dem voters whose choice was driven by a dislike for the two big parties rather than enthusiasm for Brussels.)
- Forced to choose, UKIP supporters would, by three-to-one, prefer a Tory-lead Cameron government to a Miliband-led Labour government. But one in four UKIP supporters decline to take sides. Nevertheless, one obvious line of attack by the Conservatives at the next election will be to warn UKIP supporters of the dangers of letting Ed Miliband become Prime Minister by default, if UKIP deprives the Tories of the votes they need to hang on in Con-Lab marginals.
- UKIP is widely seen as to the Right of the Tories – but that is not how UKIP voters view themselves. Whereas 60% of Tory voters place themselves to the Right of centre, the figure for UKIP supporters is rather less, 46%. And whereas 25% of Tories say they are in the centre, or even left-of-centre, the figure for UKIP voters is 36%.
- However, UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express.
- Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young).
- UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters.
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They may see themselves as left of centre, even, but noone likes to think they are unreasonable, unfair or lacking in social compassion, even IDS believes he's 'doing what's right'.
That's a pretty good analysis there brogdale -- thanks for that.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I'm not sure that it's just the UKIP supporters themselves that would describe some of their political positions as 'left of centre'. I'd imagine that quite a few folk on here would be glad to see a party of the left subscribing to some of the desires expressed by UKIP supporters:-
"In a series of questions relating to a variety of areas, from energy prices and rent control to public ownership of railways and banking reform, the poll found that voters who intend to back Ukip supported state intervention, consistently and by a significant margin. These results are in marked contrast to the lower percentages seen among Conservative supporters and are closer to Labour voters. For instance, 73% of Ukip supporters chose the proposition "the railway companies should be run in the public sector" as expressing their views, compared with 79% of Labour and only 52% of Conservative.
This pattern is broadly replicated. "The government should have the power to control energy prices": 83% Ukip, 86% Lab, 60% Con; "The government should have the power to control private sector rents": 50% Ukip, 56% Lab, 32% Con; "The energy companies should be run in the public sector": 73% Ukip, 79% Labour, 52% Con. YouGov warns that people "should be careful about reading too much into a sub-sample", but notwithstanding that caveat they can be "confident in saying that Ukip voters do seem to be more supportive of price controls and nationalisation than their rightwing image might suggest."
I actually think that there is a real danger that all of these UKIP supporters/voters are characterised as 'right-wing' nationalistic bigots; the leadership of their chosen party certainly are, but many of their voters are former Labour or working class tories.This pattern is broadly replicated. "The government should have the power to control energy prices": 83% Ukip, 86% Lab, 60% Con; "The government should have the power to control private sector rents": 50% Ukip, 56% Lab, 32% Con; "The energy companies should be run in the public sector": 73% Ukip, 79% Labour, 52% Con. YouGov warns that people "should be careful about reading too much into a sub-sample", but notwithstanding that caveat they can be "confident in saying that Ukip voters do seem to be more supportive of price controls and nationalisation than their rightwing image might suggest."
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
It's interesting that so many UKIP voters want to see state intervention when UKIP economic policy appears (last I looked) to be based on even more extreme free-market fundamentalism than nuLabour and the Tories ...
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
It is, isn't it? That there is such a discrepancy between the party and their support is probably something of a testament to Falange's skills as a political front-man, and the influence of the tabloids that the support apparently reads.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yep - thing is, no matter how many times you or others point this out, it doesn't seem to register with many people. And as a result they're working with inaccurate maps.
no he doesn't. i wish people would stop saying this.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
This is the sort of thing we're dealing with.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That bloke left the tories over it.
He did - thus neatly illustrating UKIP's strategy of mopping up social conservatives (and lunatics like him!) who think Cameron is a dangerous pinko liberal. It won't work in the long run because that demographic is shrinking and the Tories know they have to appeal to a younger and more liberal generation to have any chance of long-term electoral viability, but it's helped UKIP a bit in the short run.
Aren't the media to blame here? 15 years of scapegoating and hysteria about everything and the creation of an oppressed middle class of straight white men?
I used to think the Daily Mail told the truth (in the 90's - because that was the only newspaper i was aware of as it was all my parents ever read and I had no interest in newspapers beyond). It seemed absurd to me that the press would make shit up or misrepresent things in all but the most sutble of ways. I also never considered myself to be racist, anti-foreigners or particularly pro business/capitalism.
Why? It's in everything he says.
The figures dont' support his bullshit (and it is bullshit), he 'believes' otherwise.
Owen Jones calls him out on QT (the last time in which he appeared and will probably ever appear) and he loses his lunch and screams 'we're doing what's right'?
He believes this crap, that's part of why he's so dangerous!
I'm not suggesting he isn't evil, he's a tory. But he's also a zealot.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Why have you ignored the actual point made - that the stereotype of the UKIP voter as some fuddy old major out in the country is inaccurate?
Delusional, as J Ed says, go to Rotherham where ex labour voters are supporting Farage in their droves.
and he knows it, so expect much more 'class politics' from the Farage
'delusional'?
I think you're right.
I think UKIP are a good example of a political movement that can be described as neither "left-wing" nor "right-wing."
stuff_it
Too skool for cool
Priceless - UKIP councillor blames floods on gay marriage: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/18/ukip-homophobic-gay-_n_4622332.html
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Interesting that you describe a 'minor' political party as a "political movement". That aside, in using the phrase "left of centre" I was specifically referring to the poll findings about some of their supporters. Based upon their last GE manifesto, I don't think that anyone with more than a passing familiarity with the linear spectrum of political ideologies would place UKIP's policies anywhere other than on the right. Despite the apparently 'broad church' of support, the leadership and stated policies of the party are obviously right wing.
A party proposing flat-rate direct taxation, lower tax burdens on capital, increased in-direct taxation, drastically reduced public spending, a raft of anti-immigrant measures, prison building, 'boot-camps' for young offenders, school vouchers (private options), new grammar schools, health vouchers (private options), public sector pension freeze, universal credit benefit system, scraping of 'green' measures, nuke building and fracking ain't 'left of centre', no much how you might want to pretend it is.
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