Uber: Crap/Not-Crap?

[maomao]

I think they're "fans" in the sense of preferring Uber to the only other available option which is the black cabbies' cartel.

Obviously it would have been great if the black cabbies had seen the writing on the wall with SatNavs and mobile phones and organized themselves into a co-operative making use of mobile technology. They didn't though, so it was inevitable something like Uber would come along offering a better deal for passengers while profiting from facilitating the entry of "un-knowledged" drivers into the hail-and-ride market.

They did though. There's precious little difference in technology between Hailo and Uber.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

It's a little ironic how many fans of Uber there are here given that they're basically the epitome of neoliberalism.

Last time I checked I live in a neo liberal society so I make choices presented to me within that society based on what my wallet can afford, a wallet that is not particularly full due to the shit wages I get paid at the job I'm over qualified for. Your comment is like saying 'It's ironic that people like cheap private rent because private renting is the epitome of neoliberalism'

 

[irf520]

Last time I checked I live in a neo liberal society so I make choices presented to me within that society based on what my wallet can afford, a wallet that is not particularly full due to the shit wages I get paid at the job I'm over qualified for. Your comment is like saying 'It's ironic that people like cheap private rent because private renting is the epitome of neoliberalism'

OK fine, but it just goes to show that people are happy with the 'race to the bottom' just as long as it is someone else's ox being gored.
Divide et impera.

 

[baldrick]

OK fine, but it just goes to show that people are happy with the 'race to the bottom' just as long as it is someone else's ox being gored.
Divide et impera.

IME the price isn't any cheaper than a normal taxi but at least you don't get a controller lying to you over the phone insisting the taxi is round the corner/5 minutes away/on your road (delete as appropriate) making you late.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

OK fine, but it just goes to show that people are happy with the 'race to the bottom' just as long as it is someone else's ox being gored.
Divide et impera.

You're still making the same comment just rewording it. I got a cab home for a tenner, I got an uber ride home from a little further away from the location I got the tenner cab and it cost me a fiver. I earn minimum wage, what do you expect me to do? Pay double out of some weird sense of loyalty for someone who's clearly ripping me off? This doesn't mean I'm joyous at any sense of race to the bottom I'm just trying to get by, you plank.

This is the sort of shit that reallty fucks me off more than anything else about many people who occupy the same space on the political spectrum as me. The complete and utter lack of understanding what it's like for ordinary people just trying to get by, the complete inability to communicate with them and these patronising bullshit assumptions about how I'm some how overjoyed at the status quo and a supporter of it because I don't willingly pay more for my transportation.

 

[mauvais]

Pay double out of some weird sense of loyalty for someone who's clearly ripping me off?

They're not ripping you off if the new model isn't sustainable. To be clear, I don't know if this is the case or not with Uber.

Extreme but real example from the past: you get a bus to work, run by your local bus company. Stagecoach turn up to the party and put on a free or heavily discounted bus. You take it because the local company is ripping you off in comparison, right? Local company goes bust, Stagecoach free to charge double what you used to pay. So it might have been that you needed it to get by, but the fact remains that you've helped permanently fuck yourself.

There's not a direct translation to Uber, and I'm not saying there is. But it's very early days for Uber & it's yet to be seen whether its pricing can remain as it is long term.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

They're not ripping you off if the new model isn't sustainable. To be clear, I don't know if this is the case or not with Uber.

Extreme but real example from the past: you get a bus to work, run by your local bus company. Stagecoach turn up to the party and put on a free or heavily discounted bus. You take it because the local company is ripping you off in comparison, right? Local company goes bust, Stagecoach free to charge double what you used to pay. So it might have been that you needed it to get by, but the fact remains that you've helped permanently fuck yourself.

There's not a direct translation to Uber, and I'm not saying there is. But it's very early days for Uber & it's yet to be seen whether its pricing can remain as it is long term.

Fair points. I'm no fan of Uber but consider my post about cabs in Middlesbrough. If they're that cheap there they can be that cheap or nearly that cheap anywhere else. If Uber serves to boot them up the arse and get them to charge not such ludicrous prices then I'm all for it. As others have said, what's to stop cabbies forming a coop round an app? I'd be all for that.

 

[spanglechick]

IME the price isn't any cheaper than a normal taxi but at least you don't get a controller lying to you over the phone insisting the taxi is round the corner/5 minutes away/on your road (delete as appropriate) making you late.

Yes, this. Maybe it's being in the wilds of zone three, but our local cab offices are comparable in price to uber (indeed, uber's "surge pricing" model is a massive rip off). They're just not as practical for many reasons.

- Might not have cash
- Need picking up from otherwhere than home: which cab office on google is reliable?
- Local cab office has nothing for 45 mins or more
- Don't know where cab has got to
- Dodgy unlicensed "cab-share" merchants


Increasingly, my fatigue issues and the onset of arthritis means that I like to take a cab, as the realistic alternative is to stay home... Uber is just more convenient and secure.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

I wish we had Uber.

 

[mango5]

I'm not a fan of uber but a related annoyance is people who bug me to take one when I am on a very tight budget and quite happy to get a bus with the season ticket I save for all year. Not calling anyone out it happens a lot when I'm out late. Fantastic bus connections, day and night, is one of the major factors for choosing to live where I do.

 

[skyscraper101]

Best thing about uber is that I can use it in several countries without having to deal with coins and cash with added charges, or giving directions in foreign. Also most of the time its a regular car you can sit up front in and chat with the driver. Rather than some old taxi with a dividing window between you and the driver.

Plus, uber pooling is great. I've been in Miami all this week and pooled everywhere saving half the cost and striking up conversations with some great random folk.

It's not without it's bad points, but compared to regular city taxis they're great.

 

[binka]

i'm still using uber regularly probably around four times a week on average. I can categorically say i'm not taking any business away from traditional cabs because I never used to take them - i'm using uber instead of the bus and stagecoach can go fuck themselves as far as i'm concerned.

many of the uber drivers i've spoken to are/were private hire drivers and they all prefer working for uber where they end up taking home more money.

 

[binka]

It's a shame because the technology could be potentially used for a lot of good. Imagine a version of [BLANK] ran by the workers.

 

[maomao]

i'm still using uber regularly probably around four times a week on average. I can categorically say i'm not taking any business away from traditional cabs because I never used to take them - i'm using uber instead of the bus and stagecoach can go fuck themselves as far as i'm concerned.

many of the uber drivers i've spoken to are/were private hire drivers and they all prefer working for uber where they end up taking home more money.

They still are private hire drivers! And they've always liked working for the company where they can make the most money. The actual rate per mile is much worse to the driver they only make more because of a) the amount of work they get and b) the fact it's all run by computer with a very small office meaning Uber can give a higher proportion of the fare to the driver (while still retaining just as much for profit as any other firm).

Addison Lee achieved pretty much exactly the same thing 8-9 years ago. Technology allowing a higher density of work resulted in a cut in rates and higher wages for drivers. Uber's just managed to cut even more workers out of the system.

The actual technology isn't all that special either. It's the amount of drivers that allows them to provide the level of service that they do. Uber is a marketing coup, not a technology breakthrough.

 

[maomao]

There's not a direct translation to Uber, and I'm not saying there is. But it's very early days for Uber & it's yet to be seen whether its pricing can remain as it is long term.

The biggest cost apart from the car and driver is the office and staff. They take 25% of the fare and are run out of an office in E1. Addison Lee take 40-50% and occupy most of a street in central London with 300+ employees. Addison Lee also provide cars which are heavily subsidised. Their model using only owner drivers (many of their drivers lease cars, but not from Uber) means they've cut their fleet department to next to nothing as well as the control room. Their pricing at the moment is aggressive but it's unlikely to rise that much once they've dominated the market. They're not losing money.

 

[mauvais]

The biggest cost apart from the car and driver is the office and staff. They take 25% of the fare and are run out of an office in E1. Addison Lee take 40-50% and occupy most of a street in central London with 300+ employees. Addison Lee also provide cars which are heavily subsidised. Their model using only owner drivers (many of their drivers lease cars, but not from Uber) means they've cut their fleet department to next to nothing as well as the control room. Their pricing at the moment is aggressive but it's unlikely to rise that much once they've dominated the market. They're not losing money.

That assessment falls a bit short of how capitalism works, doesn't it? They have and in particular are going to have a lot of pressure on them for growth, both in terms of scaling and economic return from what they already do. They're exposed to the risk of their freelance, amateur-hour drivers migrating en masse to, well, anywhere, to a future competitor or an entirely different course of employment. They have no stranglehold on their customers (like say Apple & the App Store playing host to a captive market) other than inertia & profile. And so on. Things could get much more difficult very quickly.

Not that any of this would necessarily be good news for the likes of Addison Lee, either, but it would change pricing.

And if none of that happened, and they did dominate the market, err... unlikely to rise that much? The world's first benevolent private corporate monopoly?

 

[camouflage]

That assessment falls a bit short of how capitalism works, doesn't it? They have and in particular are going to have a lot of pressure on them for growth, both in terms of scaling and economic return from what they already do. They're exposed to the risk of their freelance, amateur-hour drivers migrating en masse to, well, anywhere, to a future competitor or an entirely different course of employment. They have no stranglehold on their customers (like say Apple & the App Store playing host to a captive market) other than inertia & profile. And so on. Things could get much more difficult very quickly.

Not that any of this would necessarily be good news for the likes of Addison Lee, either, but it would change pricing.

And if none of that happened, and they did dominate the market, err... unlikely to rise that much? The world's first benevolent private corporate monopoly?

If you're saying that Ubers own business model in the hands of new upstarts threaten even Uber if they attempt to raise prices...I agree. Not sure if there's any reason why drivers cannot pick and choose between networks as well... turn off the Uber-meter and switch to the Nuber-meter as and when it suits.

 

[mauvais]

If you're saying that Ubers own business model in the hands of new upstarts threaten even Uber if they attempt to raise prices...I agree. Not sure if there's any reason why drivers cannot pick and choose between networks as well... turn of the Uber-meter and switch to the Nuber-meter as and when it suits.

Sort of. So I'm saying that Uber's position is precarious regardless, as it's a game that anyone can play. They also have the twin threats of losing customers and losing drivers to those new upstarts.

However, because they're entirely dependent on contractors turning up to work with their own cars and their own immovable cost bases, then the drivers in theory have some ability to define the going rate. But without any competition, they can either work for Uber at Uber's rate, or not work at all. More competitors might do the opposite of the usual race to the bottom in terms of labour rates, i.e. when exposed to a proper market, it might actually balance out at higher prices. Who knows.

 

[J Ed]

Uber strike in NYC

 

[coley]

Uber strike in NYC

Why does tapping this link send me back to the browser page? Has happened when trying to link other US stories.

 

[skyscraper101]

When I open the app it tells me I'm in a 'smart pickup area' with some green dots at specific locations.

What is this for? How is it an advantage to me? I can't see any other information online about it. Are they suggesting these are convenient places to pickup from for the driver so I'm to walk to the nearest smart pickup spot?

 

[Gromit]

When I open the app it tells me I'm in a 'smart pickup area' with some green dots at specific locations.

What is this for? How is it an advantage to me? I can't see any other information online about it. Are they suggesting these are convenient places to pickup from for the driver so I'm to walk to the nearest smart pickup spot?

It identifies singles hangouts for Mensa members.

 

[Tankus]

Ubers coming to the 'diff ....

There's lovely for you.....

 

[editor]

I spoke to an Uber driver a couple of days ago. He said he loved working for the company and appreciated the flexibility.

 

[thirddail]

Good that it's destroying the black cab mafia in London.

 

[CNT36]

The Saudi Arabian royal government’s investment arm announced Wednesday that it is investing $3.5bn in Uber, one of the largest investments in a private technology company ever.

It’s an ironic investment for Uber, given that the country is the only one in the world to ban women from driving.

In exchange for the massive check, Yasir Al Rumayya, managing director of the Saudi public investment fund, will join Uber’s board, giving the Middle Eastern government a voice in one of Silicon Valley’s hottest firms. Uber plans to use the money to continue its international expansion in the region and elsewhere.

The company remains valued at $62.5bn, more than the market capitalization of FedEx, General Motors and Ford Motor Co each.

Partnering with the Saudi government has long produced complicated relationships for American firms. Despite some recent reforms, the country continues to be accused of mistreating dissidents, discriminating against women and an unfair criminal justice system, according to Human Rights watch. All Uber drivers there are, by law, men.

The article also talks about how great it is that Uber will help Saudi women get to work and school and how this is a good thing. It could also be just another way to exploit them. No need for them to be able to drive if they can be shipped between work and home.

 

[yield]

Uber hired CIA-linked research firm to investigate Seattle union politics
July 29, 2016
After a tense city council vote, the secretive firm was called in to investigate 'the dynamics of labor unions'

Uber has undertaken a number of initiatives to convince Seattle drivers not to support the newly empowered App Based Drivers Association. In January, Uber customer service representatives began contacting Seattle-based drivers with a new script, which began as a driver satisfaction survey but concluded with a strong anti-union message. "This is simply a case where collective bargaining and unionization do not fit the characteristics of the work," the script read, a turn one former employee characterized as "union-busting."

While Uber took no public position while the Seattle ordinance was being debated, it lobbied heavily behind the scenes and released a number of studies favorable to Uber while the bill was being considered. Some Uber drivers were also deactivated by the service after participating in pro-union activities, which some characterized as an act of political harassment by the company.

The US Chamber of Commerce has filed a lawsuit against the city of Seattle to suspend the new rule, an effort that Uber has vigorously supported.

"I’m not surprised they’re investigating us but I don’t know what new information there is to be gained," said Dawn Gearheart, a Teamsters official who’s been providing organizational support for the new union. "We don’t have anything to hide."

 

[NoXion]

Hip, trendy, and a bunch of anti-union cunts. Fuck Uber.

 

[Idris2002]

My boss went to Middlesbrough recently and said he got a cab everywhere because they're absurdly cheap, like two or three quid to go a fair distance. As a result most people take cabs everywhere and why wouldn't you at that price? He said he asked the cabs how they make money and the answer came that as soon as they start their shift they don't stop the whole time. Can anyone confirm if there's truth to this? If so why the fuck aren't cabs that cheap everywhere? Surely the cost of petrol and upkeep of a car isn't so different in Middlesbrough.

I remember cabs being that cheap in Belfast circa 1999/2000

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Hip, trendy, and a bunch of anti-union cunts. Fuck Uber.

It's not really the first two is it? It's an app on your phone that makes cab hailing a cheap piece of piss. I haven't got it because I'm trying to be hip or trendy I got it because, well, it makes cab hailing a cheap piece of piss. This is the way the wind's blowing, this is what technological advancement does. I agree it's anti union but unfortunately I can't really afford to 'fuck uber' for the reasons I already mentioned.

I don't really take cabs but the other day I needed one quickly. I checked on uber, got the fare estimate and it quoted me between 8 and 10 quid but none were around I walked around the corner and got a metred taxi and it ended up costing me 8 quid to the same place so it seems that, hopefully, uber's had the effect of booting everybody else up the arse. If it stays that price then I'll happily get the metred taxi over uber becuse, as you say, uber are shit. As I said before though I'm an over qualified and poorly paid worker and the contents of my wallet dictate how I get from A to B not out of some weird sense of loyalty to a different company providing the same service.