Uber: Crap/Not-Crap?

[magneze]

I took my first Uber trip this week. A touch under £17. Same journey in a black cab £50. Fuck that quite frankly.

 

[editor]

I lost all my love for Gor Blimey Guv'nor black cabs when the fuckers userd to refuse to take me from Paddington to Brixton.

 

[NoXion]

I lost all my love for Gor Blimey Guv'nor black cabs when the fuckers userd to refuse to take me from Paddington to Brixton.

Why would they do that?

 

[maomao]

Pointed out that Uber is cheap because it isn't safe (no regulation of drivers)...

Uber cars are regulated by the PCO, same as any minicab company, same as Addison Lee, they get CRB checked and have to do a basic map reading test. There's nothing really different about Uber except the marketing. And while I have a lot of sympathy for the black cab drivers, every time they cause transport problems for thousands while letting them all know who does it cheaper and quicker they're just making it worse.

 

[salem]

Spoke to one of the drivers at length. Protesting against TFL and their failure as a regulator to do anything about Uber - actually seeming to actively encourage them. Pointed out that Uber is cheap because it isn't safe (no regulation of drivers)...

and because drivers get paid pittance anyway. Uber do not pay UK tax. So the only winners are the rich founders in California.

A cabbie talking bollocks? Never!

Uber drivers in London are as safe and regulated as any other minicab (i.e have tfl licence, police check, insurance etc) plus there is actually a record of the journey and who picked you up.

And as for tax, well uber journeys are all logged and the papertrail is recorded - no cash involved so the drivers are going to be paying all their income tax. Uber themselves I doubt they've made profit yet.

Black cabbies lecturing about tax dodging Sorry guv the card machines on the blink

 

[NoXion]

Uber themselves I doubt they've made profit yet.

If that's true, then why do they continue doing business in London?

 

[salem]

Well I'm sure they plan on making profit, but such a big rapid operation is going to take a while to turn a profit. They are a private company so can't tell for now but most sources online are suggesting that they are hoovering up investment.

 

[killer b]

this piece in the graun last week casts them in a fairly sinister light (they are the world's richest 'startup', whatever that means)

Is Uber's ultimate goal the privatisation of city governance?

 

[Chilli.s]

There's nothing stopping black cabs doing their own version of uber.

 

[ska invita]

There's nothing stopping black cabs doing their own version of uber.

theyve got one...Halo i think? I think theres others too
still black cab prices though

eta this is it Hailo

 

[Chilli.s]

theyve got one...Halo i think? I think theres others too
still black cab prices though

Yeah, its their prices that are their problem, and they could address that rather than shitting on a different business in their industry.

 

[ska invita]

this piece in the graun last week casts them in a fairly sinister light (they are the world's richest 'startup', whatever that means)

Is Uber's ultimate goal the privatisation of city governance?

interesting but I think over stated - i dont think this: "And as it privatises an increasing proportion of transport infrastructure, public services will be abandoned to decay, with Uber providing marginally more optimised transit options (Smart Routes, UberX, UberBLACK, etc) for a profit." will ever happen.

Even in a sophisticated city like London with a massive transport system there are huge holes for many people in their tranpsort needs. Lots of places are hard to get to, lots of journeys just arent even worth considering, and thats before midnight - after midnight you need some serious stamina to get around london, and are hugely limited as to the journeys you can make.

Im about to get a smart phone purely to get Uber + some travel apps, as Im moving to an area that doesnt have the best transport links. Most places dont. If 'smart' technology can fill some of the gaps that a nationalised transport system doesnt then thats great. I dont think they're mutually exclusive.
Also theres no reason why things like Uber couldnt be nationalised! #jez4uber

 

[ska invita]

Yeah, its their prices that are their problem, and they could address that rather than shitting on a different business in their industry.

though i met a black cab driver last month (at carnival ) and he reckons after costs and working a 40hour week he was on £13 per hour. Which for a life in London isn't quite the stellar earning I thought black cabbies are on

 

[Chilli.s]

though i met a black cab driver last month (at carnival ) and he reckons after costs and working a 40hour week he was on £13 per hour. Which for a life in London isn't quite the stellar earning I thought black cabbies are on

13 an hour is grim, i bet thats what he tells the taxman. All those cash tips? straight in the pocket, don't count, that's the cream.

Its dismal the state of transport in this country and only getting worse. Car commute into London, add between 2 to 5 hours to your working day. Yet another problem our decision makers are unable to address.

 

[skyscraper101]

No love for Black Cabs, Mini Cabs or Uber tbh. They all have individual problems which don't sit right with me. Black cabs are stuck in the past with drivers who claim they have the knowledge but half the time don't know the street you want, you can't communicate to them properly because of the glass so you end up having to shout through it over the diesel engine, and they charge a fucking fortune. There's also no flat fee to central London zones from the airport so they rip off tourists and get preferential treatment in so doing by way of access. Fuck that.

Mini cabs should be the obvious rival but are forced to operate a base station which again is relic of the last century and pushes up costs in the process. They also routinely fuck up directions, or don't show up where you need because they are a haphazard collection of small businesses without the infrastructure and collective efficiency which is able to deliver a robust app based system where you can see the availability, and proximity of cars and pay remotely giving and receiving feedback along the way. It's all still pissing about with cash and cards - if they even accept cards.

Uber are big time tax loopholers who have aggresively out-marketed the competition and run smear campaigns against journalists who write bad stories against the company. They are seriously dodgy but have used every advantage of the 21st century to build they best app available which, were they not for their dubious business practice, would make them the best thing ever. The model and the app is pretty much perfect.

 

[ska invita]

13 an hour is grim, i bet thats what he tells the taxman. All those cash tips? straight in the pocket, don't count, that's the cream.

he seemed pretty straight up about that - he was saying that the black cab model is over in fact, and theres no longer any advantage in doing the learning.
hard to know the truth of it...

 

[bi0boy]

Action For Cabbies - Black Cabbies v TfL

 

[salem]

I'll have affordable and actually usable over 'iconic' any day of the week.

Keep the 'iconic' apple and pears shite for the tourists and allow real Londoners to finally be able to use cabs in this city!

Edit - I like this gem

Since 2012 when Uber was licensed, London has gone from 8th to 1st place in being Europe’s most congested city.

 

[J Ed]

Belabored Podcast #94: Disrupting Uber | Dissent Magazine

Uber has taken over the taxi markets of cities around the globe with its infamously “disruptive” business model. But the aggressively expanding rideshare service may soon get routed in Seattle, thanks to legislation that would pave the way for for-hire drivers to unionize. By allowing both rideshare app users as well as traditional cabbies to collectively bargain, the new law could establish a framework for disrupting the “gig economy” and empowering the rank-and-file drivers. We speak with Rebecca Smith of the National Employment Law Project and Takele Gobena of the App-Based Drivers Association in Seattle to explore the legal and political road ahead for labor organizing in the “On Demand” economy.

 

[Idris2002]

interesting but I think over stated - i dont think this: "And as it privatises an increasing proportion of transport infrastructure, public services will be abandoned to decay, with Uber providing marginally more optimised transit options (Smart Routes, UberX, UberBLACK, etc) for a profit." will ever happen.

Even in a sophisticated city like London with a massive transport system there are huge holes for many people in their tranpsort needs. Lots of places are hard to get to, lots of journeys just arent even worth considering, and thats before midnight - after midnight you need some serious stamina to get around london, and are hugely limited as to the journeys you can make.

Im about to get a smart phone purely to get Uber + some travel apps, as Im moving to an area that doesnt have the best transport links. Most places dont. If 'smart' technology can fill some of the gaps that a nationalised transport system doesnt then thats great. I dont think they're mutually exclusive.
Also theres no reason why things like Uber couldnt be nationalised! #jez4uber

Once Uber privatises the city completely, everyone who can't be served by their little scam will be allowed to sink to the bottom. Try getting around London then.

 

[mauvais]

Belabored Podcast #94: Disrupting Uber | Dissent Magazine

There's an FT piece here with a glancing comment on Uber:
Scaling, and why unicorns can’t survive without it | FT Alphaville

What bitcoiners never understood is that this sort of economic trust extends far beyond the reach of just banking services. Trust is inherent to a functioning scaled up economy. We put trust in strangers and processes every day. From the food we eat, to the products we buy and the planes we fly in. Everywhere you look, you’re trusting another person somehow. In fact, it’s probably an economic impossibility for the system to be trustless. The only exception is if everyone wants to live as Mad Max or combine into a hive brain where there’s no privacy or individuality on offer to anyone.

With the likes of Uber and AirBnb the scaling challenges are less obvious, yet they are still there. This is because unlike conventional corporate structures, where success is underpinned by economies of scale, such platforms often choose to outsource services to contractors, amateurs and individuals — all of whom are arguably much less equipped to do the job in hand than professionals.

But it’s not just about skill. Outsourcing to individual contractors (as opposed to specialist firms, which have economies of scale of their own) means that on an aggregate basis efficiency is lost. For example, rather than having the bulk purchase bargaining power of a major corporate, Uber drivers must negotiate everything from car lease contracts, insurance, fuel prices and cleaning services individually. They also can’t share those goods between them. That makes the overall costs of servicing the customer base higher, which will eventually feed through to prices.

The same applies to AirBnb. Unlike a hotel, which can draw on many efficiencies — from having one set of cleaners and a single laundry to clean hundreds of rooms to a single concierge to deal with all key handovers and a single insurance contract, AirBnb hosts must double up on all these expenses. And whilst professional rental companies or boutique hotels can make these unscaled offers work on a competitive basis, it’s almost never on a low-cost, high-quality or amateur basis.

What’s more, even those amateurs who decide to hire in managing agents to draw on their efficiencies find themselves losing out to hospitality hubs, which don’t have to deal with the added cost of getting cleaners and key-management services to multiple unconnected locations across town.

It might take a few years, but eventually the contractors, amateurs and individuals which the sharing economy depends on to absorb its operating costs will realise that it’s only by coming together within a corporate structure that they can create the sort of economies of scale which can generate long-term profitability for themselves.

 

[Orang Utan]

Night buses are more fun and cheaper (in London)

 

[frogwoman]

i always go to a normal taxi or a bus, i dislike the whole idea of uber on principle and wont do it tbh

 

[J Ed]

i always go to a normal taxi or a bus, i dislike the whole idea of uber on principle and wont do it tbh

I would use a version of Uber run on a co-op basis but not until then.

 

[bi0boy]

Night buses are more fun and cheaper (in London)

Not during they day they aren't

Maybe you enjoy waiting at bus stops from dawn until midnight.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Night buses are more fun and cheaper (in London)

Except they're buses. Which are horrible.

 

[ska invita]

Once Uber privatises the city completely, everyone who can't be served by their little scam will be allowed to sink to the bottom. Try getting around London then.

Never going to happen

Night buses are more fun and cheaper (in London)

masochism!

i always go to a normal taxi or a bus, i dislike the whole idea of uber on principle and wont do it tbh

they are normal minicabs! they just work independently of a minicab office boss...its closer to horizontalism than the petit bourgeois fifedom of the cab office

 

[butchersapron]

This why the revolution is not an organisational question. Capitalist co-option of 'democratic' forms. And that being applauded by the 'democrats'.

 

[Me76]

I am thinking of signing up for Uber as I am coming back to Gatwick after a trip at a time that means I have no trains to get me home. Trains to East Croydon still run and rather than waiting for a bus after midnight on a Thursday night, I am thinking I might splash out for a cab.

My experience with Black Cabs is limited as they are mostly out of my price range but mostly they will refuse to take my fare (South London) so I don't really even bother with them now.

I'm getting quite bored of having arguments with mini cab drivers too. I always check what the fare will be when I book the cab and the last few times the driver has tried to charge me more. At least with Uber there is no negotiating / room for ripping off and everyone knows where they stand up front.

 

[Orang Utan]

Not during they day they aren't

Maybe you enjoy waiting at bus stops from dawn until midnight.

Not sure why you'd want to take a cab in the day time