Uber: Crap/Not-Crap?

[gentlegreen]

Is it the same Uber in the UK as UBERpop in France ?
The French cabbies are saying these people aren't paying tax and NI and have inadequate insurance - made it sound as if it's the new "filesharing" ...

 

[pogofish]

I'd avoid Uber on principle after the amount of spamming I've seen them indulge in.

Any company with that disreputable a marketing model is quite liable to be shonky in every other aspect of its operation.

 

[NoXion]

It's part of the trend involving the casualisation of labour and the erosion of workers' conditions. So fuck 'em. If I need a car I'm calling a minicab.

 

[maomao]

Of course it matters. One minicab in constant use is far better than several private cars being unused for a large proportion of the time.

The majority of their passengers own cars anyway and your average minicab, aside from Uber, Addison Lee and black cabs, does up to half its mileage empty, running between jobs and coming back from jobs. Only very large fleets with lots and lots of work can get over this problem and even then it's 20%+. The ideal situation would be a massive driver owned co-op of course but that would still be unlikely to effect overall car ownership, just reduce dead mileage for cabs.

 

[ska invita]

It's part of the trend involving the casualisation of labour and the erosion of workers' conditions. So fuck 'em. If I need a car I'm calling a minicab.

uber drivers are minicabs though!
the saving in price is because the driver doesnt have to pay the local cab company office a cut

 

[NoXion]

uber drivers are minicabs though!

In the same way that Amazon is just another retailer, sure.

the saving in price is because the driver doesnt have to pay the local cab company office a cut

And how do Uber themselves make money? It seems to me that they do it by by passing as much of the overhead as they can get away with to the drivers.

 

[ska invita]

In the same way that Amazon is just another retailer, sure.



And how do Uber themselves make money? It seems to me that they do it by by passing as much of the overhead as they can get away with to the drivers.

no they are literally the same drivers from the normal minicab office - the drivers have just chosen to stop paying quite high weekly fees to the local office and pay a smaller sum to Uber. Uber and the local office both do the same job - provide business to the mincab drivers. its jsut that Uber is a lot cheaper for the driver.

Black cabs are annoyed purely because it shows up even more just how much of a fortune it costs to get in one.

 

[NoXion]

no they are literally the same drivers from the normal minicab office - the drivers have just chosen to stop paying quite high weekly fees to the local office and pay a smaller sum to Uber. Uber and the local office both do the same job - provide business to the mincab drivers. its jsut that Uber is a lot cheaper for the driver.

Plus of course Uber don't have to bother employing anyone to man phones. So instead of numerous small businesses employing more people overall, we get one trendy and hip Web2.0 company with pure intentions, entrepreneurial spirit and a website, that employs far fewer people. Progress!

Just wait until self-driving Google Cabs come along to get rid of those pesky human drivers too. Then we will truly be living in the future!

Black cabs are annoyed purely because it shows up even more just how much of a fortune it costs to get in one.

I'm pretty sure it's not just black cabs who are annoyed.

 

[ska invita]

Plus of course Uber don't have to bother employing anyone to man phones. So instead of numerous small businesses employing more people overall, we get one trendy and hip Web2.0 company with pure intentions, entrepreneurial spirit and a website that employs far fewer people. Progress!

Just wait until self-driving Google Cabs come along to get rid of those pesky human drivers too. Then we will truly be living in the future!
I'm pretty sure it's not just black cabs who are annoyed.

thats exactly right
the people losing out on work here are the person answering the phones and the boss of the local cab office, who basically makes money off the back of the drivers
however, the drivers themselves - from what i gather - are happy - they come away with more money in their pocket and more work flexibility - so the vast majority of the workers involved in mincabbing - namely the minicab drivers - are happy about it.

The people who strike are from the more expensive city cab offices - like the black cabs.

Thats my understanding of it.

I definitely cant afford to get in a black cab - unless theres 4 people i can maybe get in a minicab - uber makes cabs vaguely affordable
London does have really high cab fare costs though - many other cities in the world have much much lower.

And as to automation and driverless cars - we'll see it in our lifetime im sure.

i can get with this slogan:

 

[killer b]

Black cabs are annoyed purely because it shows up even more just how much of a fortune it costs to get in one.

Not just that - they're also annoyed because it blurs the line between black cabs and private hire vehicles: while you can't 'hail' a uber cab like you can a black cab, the app pretty much does it for you. So it takes even more of their work, which has seen a significant leak to the private hire trade in recent years already (as well as less people using cabs due to the recession).

It costs a fucking fortune to buy a black cab, and in most parts of the country the drivers are just scraping by. It's understandable they're frightened by developments like this.

 

[ska invita]

black cabbies do well financially compared to mincab drivers - but yes theyve worked really hard to get to that job - did the learning, bought that special cab.... thing is when i see a black cab i see a limousine - unless you are going just up the road you have to be rich to get in a black cab. I dont know when it became like that, but thats how it is now, and has been for a many years now.

Frankly the whole Learning thing is outdated - all taxis have GPS and route planners - throw in a bit of local knowledge and its all pretty redundant.

I did get a black cab home once last year from London Bridge to Forest Hill after missing last train and there were 3 of us and we were fed up - I still had to show him were to go and what turnings to take.

 

[NoXion]

thats exactly right
the people losing out on work here are the person answering the phones and the boss of the local cab office, who basically makes money off the back of the drivers

I'm not sure why it's better for the smaller amount of Zuckerbergoid parasites who created and run Uber to be the ones making money off the backs of the drivers instead, but maybe I've yet to grasp the revolutionary significance of global internet companies.

I wouldn't be so quick to lump the people on the phones in the same category as the bosses - are retail workers profiting off the backs of farm and factory workers?

however, the drivers themselves - from what i gather - are happy - they come away with more money in their pocket and more work flexibility - so the vast majority of the workers involved in mincabbing - namely the minicab drivers - are happy about it.

The people who strike are from the more expensive city cab offices - like the black cabs.

Thats my understanding of it.

I predict that they'll be less happy about such arrangements when they become the norm and companies like Uber have them by the balls, and start squeezing.

I definitely cant afford to get in a black cab - unless theres 4 people i can maybe get in a minicab - uber makes cabs vaguely affordable
London does have really high cab fare costs though - many other cities in the world have much much lower.

I've never used black cabs; even if the per-unit cost was not an issue, the fact their pricing model is based on units of time rather than distance makes them irrelevant because a mere traffic jam would put me out of pocket. I've only ever used minicabs and while I wouldn't use them regularly, compared to trains or buses, they've not been prohibitively expensive on the occasions I've used them.

And as to automation and driverless cars - we'll see it in our lifetime im sure.

i can get with this slogan:

I'm sure that increased automation and such will be a thing in my lifetime, but it seems that unlike you I realise that within spaces where capitalism exists as the dominant force, such things will be introduced and structured on their terms, not ours. If the universal basic income becomes a thing, then I would expect it to be enacted for the same reasons that the welfare state was established - something done not out of the goodness of the boss's hearts, but as a sop to preclude full-scale revolution and preserve their own social position.

 

[ska invita]

I

I predict that they'll be less happy about such arrangements when they become the norm and companies like Uber have them by the balls, and start squeezing.

that could be an issue.
then again could there not be a new company with cheaper rates to undercut the rates due to them?
fuck knows - im not here to defend uber, i just wanted to point out what i understand of it - namely that at present mincab drivers (who sign up) are behind it and its making them more money.

 

[ska invita]

I've never used black cabs; even if the per-unit cost was not an issue, the fact their pricing model is based on units of time rather than distance makes them irrelevant because a mere traffic jam would put me out of pocket. I've only ever used minicabs and while I wouldn't use them regularly, compared to trains or buses, they've not been prohibitively expensive on the occasions I've used them.

i had to pay just under a tenner (£9) to go to hospital in one last week - its what, 2 miles from my home? Maybe 3 top.
the time minicabs come up is trying to get home from the other side of london and avoid taking night buses - IMO they take the piss with the prices they come up with because they know you are desperate and have to pay it.
I like cab drivers though and dont resent being ripped off by them in the way i do other people - im sure they could really do with the money

 

[ska invita]

tbh i just want whats best for the minicab drivers in all this

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

uber drivers don't fill you in with the latest bile from planet racist. So black cab every time please.

 

[binka]

I've used uber a few times, it is handy especially if you don't have cash on you. One of the drivers told me uber takes 20% but I have no idea how that compares to a normal mini cab.

 

[Maharani]

a female friend of mine who occassionaly gets stranded at night has been using uber a fair bit and has been asking the drivers what they think of uber - unanimously those cabbies who are on it say that as a result of it they have been getting more work and are getting better paid. so they are for it. so she tells me.

the difference in price is shocking - less than half price it would seem.

Yeah and these drivers are just trying to make a living too...

 

[joustmaster]

A black cab seems to be a pointless old option. Nothing about it is better.
I can't think why we would want to keep it around, other than as a fun old nod to the past - like getting a horse drawn trap for fun.

 

[Dogsauce]

A black cab seems to be a pointless old option. Nothing about it is better.
I can't think why we would want to keep it around, other than as a fun old nod to the past - like getting a horse drawn trap for fun.

Disabled access is I think mandatory on black cabs, something a minicab won't have. That's worth something. Plus they can use bus lanes which might get you there quicker than a private hire.

 

[Batboy]

Black cabs can go fuck themselves. They fleece the public with exorbitant costs. £110 against £40 for airport job, refusing fares (which is illegal), the last time I tried to use a black cab he was abusive and refused to take the fare. I don't give a fuck that they do the knowledge.

As for Uber well the crap bit is that most of their drivers have no fucking idea where they are going especially in London, as they often float in to London from miles away. They also will jack up prices when there is a problem or high demand so they are not always cheaper. They also cherry pick the best bits and parts of the day.

What I do like with Uber is the, trackability, availability and the cash free system. It feels easy and the fact that are giving it up the arse to the Black cabs, long overdue.

However, personally I still prefer my local mini cab company who I have used for years and got to know some of the drivers. They need to shake up their systems to challenge uber.

Support your local mini-cab office is my mantra.

 

[DotCommunist]

profligates. Just get the bus.

 

[camouflage]

profligates. Just get the bus.

Not always practical old boy. *puff puff puff*

 

[Coolfonz]

It's really the corporate control by Uber right? `Hateful comments...` etc Wankers.

Is the solution an open-source Uber? Schmuber (TM) ? Surely if I - an idiot - has thought of this it has already been invented.

If it hasn't please regard this as a patent as I'm blates a big nerd taxi fella yeah? Just doing the code-whatsit right now.

And nothing wrong with black cabs, apart from the mad fares. I imagine every single black cab fare is offset against tax eventually...`got any spare receipts mate?`

 

[camouflage]

Theres an anti-Uber demo in London today, and the anti-Uber movement just won in Belgium recently...I just don't know where to stand on this, with the entrenched interests that want to keep prices high or with the arrogant techno billionaires happy to sweep aside workers right. Would be great if there a third position... a Peoples Uber sort of thing.

 

[pesh]

Last time there was a protest against Uber in London their daily signups went up 800%
you have to wonder if this protest will have the desired effect.

 

[joustmaster]

During the first Uber protest, a year or two ago, Uber brought out the option to hire a black cab through their app, the same day.
A strong pisstaking move.

I am yet to see a black cab that has signed up for it.

 

[gentlegreen]

.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Quoting myself from twitter last night:

"Very effective blockade of The City of London by about 100 black cabs parked up in rows. Plus banners, drums.

Spoke to one of the drivers at length. Protesting against TFL and their failure as a regulator to do anything about Uber - actually seeming to actively encourage them. Pointed out that Uber is cheap because it isn't safe (no regulation of drivers)...

and because drivers get paid pittance anyway. Uber do not pay UK tax. So the only winners are the rich founders in California.

Suggestion that Boris, Cameron and TFL colluding in a race to the bottom which will see the end of the iconic black cab. After that Uber will put prices up anyway. Driver keen to say that cabbies are not militant "we're self employed!" or Luddites.

Obviously the cops didn't seem too upset by this "Stop The City" but regardless of that and the stereotypes about cabbies, I support them.

Ultimately this is a set of skilled regulated workers who are being put out of a job because of tech and a political agenda."

 

[Teaboy]

Uber in London is a massive problem, its almost as cheap as public transport so a lot of people are just using that. The knock effect to road congestion and pollution is very bad.

ETA: That being said they are way better then the illegal cabs.