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Tory Leadership contest 2022

billy_bob said:
Yes, but 'sending a positive message' about the possibility of a black or brown person reaching the highest office - which yes, it would do by definition - isn't the same as achieving concrete positive steps forward in tackling racism of any kind, from street violence to white supremacist societal structures, is it? Not unless you're also vocal and serious about recognising the vast compromises with those structures that that person would have had to make - which none of the people bandying about these positive messages would be.
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platinumsage said:
I never claimed any of that tbf.
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Yeah, fair enough. I'm just reflecting that any positive message it would send is very much undermined by the fact that it would also be used as an excuse to pretend it demonstrated that all that other stuff was dealt with, just as plenty of people did in the US when Obama was elected.
 
Chz said:
Modern Britain can be a terribly racist place. But it's peanuts compared to the shit that goes on in France. There's still a healthy sized group out that that reckons the Vichy government was a good thing because it helped to get rid of the Jews.
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I have a relation who constantly refers to the UK as a racist shithole, says he can't stand Southend because it's full of 'ugly white people' (his exact words), moans about the lack of of diversity at his very very middle class workplace and holidays in France every year. I put it down to him not speaking French.

Despite racism still being a huge problem the UK is the least racist country I know.
 
maomao said:
Despite racism still being a huge problem the UK is the least racist country I know.
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Hard to know how these things can be quantified with any real degree of accuracy, but this global survey ranks the UK as the 16th least racist country. To my surprise we are lagging 3 places behind Australia:

Least Racist Countries 2023

worldpopulationreview.com
 
Jeff Robinson said:
Hard to know how these things can be quantified with any real degree of accuracy, but this global survey ranks the UK as the 16th least racist country. To my surprise we are lagging 3 places behind Australia:

Least Racist Countries 2023

worldpopulationreview.com
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Behind Australia? I haven't been there in 15 years, but they must have come along leaps and bounds since then!

Edit: Ah, "The more people of a particular country responded that they would be happy to have a neighbor of a different race, the more racially tolerant the respondents' country would be considered."
That's an interesting take on it. But I suppose it is really an impossible thing to measure.
 
Couldn't see Cuba on the list of least racist countries? Those i have spoken to (who have visited Cuba) seem to regard it as a very non racist place. A curious omission.
 
ska invita said:
Theres an interesting historic colonial/class dynamic of 'Indian' Tories:
www.theguardian.com

How did British Indians become so prominent in the Conservative party? | Neha Shah

Since Thatcher’s day, the Conservatives have held the community up as a model minority, says activist and researcher Neha Shah
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

"
Indian migration to Britain took place in two significant waves. The first was in the late 1940s and 50s, when migrants were recruited directly from India by successive governments to fill the labour shortage that resulted from the second world war. They mostly settled in the Midlands and the north-west of England, working in foundries and textile manufacturing. These migrants were heavily involved in building Britain’s antiracist and trade union movements in the 1950s and 60s, drawing on lessons learned from anti-colonial struggles back home to organise their communities in Britain. To this day, these communities are disproportionately working class and Labour voting.

The second wave of Indian migrants to Britain were the so-called “twice migrants” who arrived from east Africa in the 1960s and 70s, having been expelled or encouraged to leave by the newly independent regimes in Uganda, Kenya and Tanzania. The families of our chancellor, home secretary and attorney general are all part of this latter group.

So how and why have their descendants become so prominent on the Tory frontbenches? The answer begins in 1895, with the creation of the British East Africa Protectorate. British officials envisioned the protectorate, which occupied roughly the same area as modern-day Kenya, as the “America of the Hindu”, a settler-colonial project to be led by Indians on behalf of the British.

In the early 20th century, thousands of Indians (mostly Goans, Gujaratis and Punjabis) were imported into east Africa as subcolonial agents of civilisation. They were required to work in colonial administration and serve in the colonial police and army, to keep the “native peoples” in order. "
etc
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Agree with all of this, just to add that the majority of 'Asians' (as described in East Africa) made up the mercantile and business classes of the region. A lot of merchants were already present in remote towns before Europeans arrived having replaced the Arab slavers who penetrated as far as the Congo from the East coast.

There has always been friction between black Africans and 'Asians' in Kenya, Tanzania and Zambia, as well as famously in Uganda. Shiva Naipaul's book 'North of South' from the late 1970's explores these tensions.

/derail over
 
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Chz said:
Modern Britain can be a terribly racist place. But it's peanuts compared to the shit that goes on in France. There's still a healthy sized group out there that reckons the Vichy government was a good thing because it helped to get rid of the Jews.
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Yep. I used to live in Paris (and I suspect Paris is better than lots of places outside). I'd a Senegalese friend there who'd lived in London as well as Paris and she reckoned London was way, way better than Paris. Heard similar from other non-white French friends. (Also very common for people to very casually in conversation mention that N African people are all thieves and cheats and stuff. Found that pretty astonishing.)

So I'm by no means saying things are perfect here but they're way, way better than in France IMO. (I was in a mixed-race relationship at the time too so also experienced some shit due to that. 😡 )
 
redcogs said:
Couldn't see Cuba on the list of least racist countries? Those i have spoken to (who have visited Cuba) seem to regard it as a very non racist place. A curious omission.
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I've lived in Cuba. Sadly it is a much more racist place than first meets the eye. The structural inequality left after slavery is still there - the blackest neighbourhoods are the poorest neighbourhoods. And the particular form of racism that arose in Cuba, essentially involving three categories rather than the two of places like the US, is still very much in evidence. Dark-skinned people in Cuba suffer a great deal of prejudice, which isn't helped by the official line that says racism has been banished to the past.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
I've lived in Cuba. Sadly it is a much more racist place than first meets the eye. The structural inequality left after slavery is still there - the blackest neighbourhoods are the poorest neighbourhoods. And the particular form of racism that arose in Cuba, essentially involving three categories rather than the two of places like the US, is still very much in evidence. Dark-skinned people in Cuba suffer a great deal of prejudice, which isn't helped by the official line that says racism has been banished to the past.
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Sad to hear. Those tourists who spoke to me about it obviously had a rose coloured view. Thanks littlebabyjesus
 
Sue said:
TBH, thought I might give it a bash. I mean I can hold a pint/eat chips like a normal person and have managed thus far not to sexually assault people while pissed so reckon I'm off to a flyer. :thumbs:
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Can you not tell the truth aswell😇😆
 
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