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    Lazy Llama

Tory lead cut to 6% in poll ..

taffboy gwyrdd said:
Butchers - rants about mainstream politics are likely to turn up on threads about mainstream politics, like those related to the latest polls.
Click to expand...

£880 000 000 000!!!!

Every fucking thread no matter what the content over and over though - like you're bringing us news from the mountaintop?
 
trevhagl said:
I just don't understand polls at all. true Labour have been a disgrace but when you consider how many very rich people there are in this country, there surely can be no more than 10percent so where are the other 30percent coming from to propose voting Tory? Are there that many thick people?
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The total vote is only 40% of about a 60% turnout though, innit? So that's only 24% in total.

First-past-the-post is a ridiculous and disenfranchising system when it is combined with party politics. You should have one or the other, but not both.
 
Also, it's not at all odd that people vote in line with what they identify as their and their's best interests - annoying it may be but it's also the guarantee that communism will win.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
£880 000 000 000

Lest it be forgot. Generations will be paying off the debt, part of the biggest heist in history.
Click to expand...

I tend to presume that if there was a heist it happened a long long time ago, and the sums of money involved in the bailouts and things are not a true representation of a new debt burden we have to shoulder.

I feel that perhaps we spent most of last century living beyond our means, and having peoples work efforts directed to things that only made up appear to be well off in a very superficial way, or squandered completely on war or useless stuff. By the 70's it was hard to hide the rot, but in 1980's by selling off the assets of the nation and ploughing through north sea oil & gas windfall, we were able to construct a new glittering facade, a new era of phoney prosperity. The financial crisis was an indication that the fantasy had grown as big as it could, and there was no more bullshit left to fill in the ever growing hole. The bailout was used to stop the hole from consuming us all instantly, yes there was also some people who profited from it in a big way and you could call that a heist, but the shitty situation & debt we will be paying off forever is rather larger and older than anything taken in that heist.

As for the Tories, I noticed before Christmas that there was some grumbling in the world of international finance that we might end up with a hung parliament and this will make the government too weak to take the sort of brutal austerity measures the financiers would like to see, for of course they want to see us 'being responsible' = crushing us by making us pay off the debt more quickly. This decade aint gonna be much of a hoot unless they have a new bullshit bubble ready to inflate.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
£880 000 000 000

Lest it be forgot. Generations will be paying off the debt, part of the biggest heist in history.
Click to expand...

But not let's allow polemic to interfere with the facts shall we . . . the headline number you cite is actually £850bn of which the vast majority is made up of the total exposure of guarantees and indemnities eg . . .

"agreed to guarantee up to £250 billion of wholesale borrowing by banks to strengthen liquidity in the banking system; . . "

Thus the actual number you are looking for is contained here . . .

"The Treasury’s net cash outlay for purchases of shares in banks and lending to the banking sector, including Northern Rock, will, after allowing for measures announced in November 2009, amount to about £117 billion."

Now, turning to your assumption about £880bn needing generations to pay off, clearly you are assuming that inflation will remain less than the rate of interest for a minimum of up 40 years . . .

:facepalm:


Source : National Audit Office report Dec 2009
 
Interesting: Guardian/ICM poll: Poll shows Conservatives losing battle over class
The Conservatives are losing the battle over class, according to a Guardian/ICM poll published today, which shows a third of voters see the Tories as the party of the upper classes.

Overall, Labour has failed to dent the Conservative poll lead despite a month of political skirmishing, with voters apparently still ready to give David Cameron a narrow majority.

The poll will give some reassurance to opposition leaders, with the Tory lead widening slightly to 11 points thanks to an increase in the Liberal Democrat vote at Labour's expense. It also shows voters back the party's proposals on marriage and think Gordon Brown's leadership made the recession worse. They agree overwhelmingly, too, that it is time for a change of government.
Click to expand...

The Guardian summary is awful mind.
 
butchersapron said:
Interesting: Guardian/ICM poll: Poll shows Conservatives losing battle over class


The Guardian summary is awful mind.
Click to expand...

Interestingly, Kelvin Mackenzie was commenting on this on a recent Question Time, he said he though Labour would win this particular battle because of the fairly well established backgrounds of Cameron, Osborne, Johnson et al.
kevin maguire made a more nuanced and imho better view of it recently mind.
 
guardian said:
The Conservatives are losing the battle over class, according to a Guardian/ICM poll published today, which shows a third of voters see the Tories as the party of the upper classes.
Click to expand...

It's Cameron's fault, he needn't have selected so many Eton old boys for his front bench. In fact imo it's indicative of a mistake on his part, he openned himself up for the accusation of being the upper class party. I am sure there are plenty of normal people he could have selected.
 
weltweit said:
It's Cameron's fault, he needn't have selected so many Eton old boys for his front bench. In fact imo it's indicative of a mistake on his part, he openned himself up for the accusation of being the upper class party. I am sure there are plenty of normal people he could have selected.
Click to expand...

Old Etonians are normal people as far as Cameron's concerned. That's the problem.
 
weltweit said:
It's Cameron's fault, he needn't have selected so many Eton old boys for his front bench. In fact imo it's indicative of a mistake on his part, he openned himself up for the accusation of being the upper class party. I am sure there are plenty of normal people he could have selected.
Click to expand...

Who? 85% of the tory candidates are from social class A1 and A2.
 
Given the knowledge we have of how private schools dominate the top positions across the board i hope that i need not lead you by the nose to the obvious conclusion. Oddly enough the tories have removed all mention of educational backgrounds from their candidates sites apart from the comp educated ones - there's only a handful left.
 
I'll just upload that chart for others to see:

tories10.jpg
 
weltweit said:
I wonder what the table would show for New Labour candidates.
Click to expand...
It'd be better, but not much. You're right though - the table for the Tories can't really be judged except by comparison to that for Labour and the Lib Dems.
 
I agree with butchers. The fact that others might be as bad is neither here nor there. As a party, they are unrepresentative. That fact stands on its own merits, otherwise you just have a race to the bottom.
 
it's a bit boring analysing the background of Tories, surely it's enough to know they are utter utter CUNTS?
 
kabbes said:
I agree with butchers. The fact that others might be as bad is neither here nor there. As a party, they are unrepresentative. That fact stands on its own merits, otherwise you just have a race to the bottom.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, they address different points. One is an indictment of the Tory party, the other is an indictment of our so-called representative democracy.
 
butchersapron said:
So? In what way does that undermine the GMB reports findings?
Click to expand...

It's not pertinant to the GMB groupings, they chose what they wanted to use and that is that.

However, looking at MPs in the round, you might expect most of them to come from a managerial class, whetever their party. I would like to see the same split of politicians in New Labour as I expect there would also be high representations in the top two groups, more than in the general population.
 
Personally I think the second table is more interesting re tory candidates which seems to show they are all bankers or work in finance.
 
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