The ongoing stupidity of Home Secretary Priti Patel

[Bahnhof Strasse]

A minger

At primary school there was a kid called Alan Mingeham, (pronounced Ming-um) - we were all just called by our surnames, music teacher was about 130 years old and she used to call him Minge-Ham, which 45 years later I still find amusing...

 

[brogdale]

No, they don't. Most English speakers (including the whole of North America) would not sound the 'g' in singer but would in finger. However, it seems I'm a little wrong about exactly where they do rhyme. My dad, from Bradford, does it, but according to this map of ng-coalescence he probably got it from his mum (from Bolton, or it was different when he was born 80-odd years ago). It does put Manchester right in the uncoalesced ng area though which does stretch right down to Birmingham.

View attachment 441217

from Phonological history of English consonant clusters - Wikipedia

It rather annoyingly doesn't include Wales (Rebecca Riot , because I've never heard it in Essex) but seems to suggest they might in North Wales at least. I'm also intrigued by the idea that they do down in Margate and Herne Bay. Probably not a good enough reason for a day out there though.

Anyway, Priti Patel, what a cunt eh?

Coming from that North/Mid kent area identified I can honestly say that they must be referring to an historical pattern, because I've never heard any evidence that the pattern still exists. The Wiki link suggests that:

This also occurs in a small area of Kent. As this occurs around the mining area of Kent, it might be a result of large-scale migration by miners from other more northerly coalfields to Kent in the 1920s.

As such, this looks like sloppy cartography. If they were attempting to map the small area of S.E. Kent that comprised the Kent coalfield, they need to get a better map-maker:

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

No, they don't. Most English speakers (including the whole of North America) would not sound the 'g' in singer but would in finger. However, it seems I'm a little wrong about exactly where they do rhyme. My dad, from Bradford, does it, but according to this map of ng-coalescence he probably got it from his mum (from Bolton, or it was different when he was born 80-odd years ago). It does put Manchester right in the uncoalesced ng area though which does stretch right down to Birmingham.

View attachment 441217

from Phonological history of English consonant clusters - Wikipedia

It rather annoyingly doesn't include Wales (Rebecca Riot , because I've never heard it in Essex) but seems to suggest they might in North Wales at least. I'm also intrigued by the idea that they do down in Margate and Herne Bay. Probably not a good enough reason for a day out there though.

Anyway, Priti Patel, what a cunt eh?

How do people say singer without pronouncing the 'g'? Surely, singer minus the g is sinner?

Here's me saying singer finger singer finger, they both sound the same to me, apart from the first letter.



Can someone share a recording of singer and finger not rhyming, because I'm having a hard time 'visualising' - or auralising? is that a word? - a possibility of the two words not rhyming.

 

[existentialist]

How do people say singer without pronouncing the 'g'? Surely, singer minus the g is sinner?

Here's me saying singer finger singer finger, they both sound the same to me, apart from the first letter.



Can someone share a recording of singer and finger not rhyming, because I'm having a hard time 'visualising' - or auralising? is that a word? - a possibility of the two words not rhyming.

Happy to oblige.

 

[bluescreen]

At primary school there was a kid called Alan Mingeham, (pronounced Ming-um) - we were all just called by our surnames, music teacher was about 130 years old and she used to call him Minge-Ham, which 45 years later I still find amusing...

There's an English poet called Rod Mengham, who pronounces it Menge-ham. He says the name is Jutish. Most people mispronounce it, including his publisher, but here is the man himself.


AnnO'Neemus - here's my effort to record the difference I hear

 

[Puddy_Tat]

How do people say singer without pronouncing the 'g'? Surely, singer minus the g is sinner?

Here's me saying singer finger singer finger, they both sound the same to me, apart from the first letter.



Can someone share a recording of singer and finger not rhyming, because I'm having a hard time 'visualising' - or auralising? is that a word? - a possibility of the two words not rhyming.

it's subtle, but from where i'm sitting

singer (or winger, flinger) is more sing-er, finger is more fin-ger

whinger is different, as that's more whin-jer

 

[maomao]

And for that other singer/sinner contrast.

 

[shifting gears]

I have the first Singer Finger LP, criminally underrated if you ask me

 

[PTK]

How do people say singer without pronouncing the 'g'? Surely, singer minus the g is sinner?

Here's me saying singer finger singer finger, they both sound the same to me, apart from the first letter.



Can someone share a recording of singer and finger not rhyming, because I'm having a hard time 'visualising' - or auralising? is that a word? - a possibility of the two words not rhyming.

I think that what is referred to is sing-er and fin-Ger. The "g" is emphasised more in the latter case.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I have the first Singer Finger LP, criminally underrated if you ask me

Does it linger in your memory?

Would you say it's a zinger?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[maomao]

It's not 'subtle' and it's not 'emphasis'. It's a different set of phonemes. Language doesn't register subtle differences as affecting the meaning of words.

Finger is ˈfɪŋɡə in IPA and
Singer is ˈsɪŋə in IPA. Except for a very few speakers in the UK where
singer is ˈsɪŋgə

The g is either there or it's not.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I could swear I clicked on the Priti Patel thread.

 

[maomao]

I could swear I clicked on the Priti Patel thread.

Her career's over anyway.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Happy to oblige.

Ah, yes, thanks, very, very subtle but yours sounds like sing-er and fin-ger, versus (what I assume to be) my sing-er and fing-er.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

It's not 'subtle' and it's not 'emphasis'. It's a different set of phonemes. Language doesn't register subtle differences as affecting the meaning of words.

Finger is ˈfɪŋɡə in IPA and
Singer is ˈsɪŋə in IPA. Except for a very few speakers in the UK where
singer is ˈsɪŋgə

The g is either there or it's not.

I'd never noticed/realised there was a regional variation before, tbh. And up until now, I used to like to think I have a good ear for picking up some nuances.

And thank you for explaining - although I never learned linguistics, so I'm not 'fluent' in all those pronunciation symbol whatsits, but picked up a bit here and there, from originally learning ITA at school, then learning French, etc., so could understand what you meant.

 

[Serge Forward]

Happy to oblige.

See, when I say "sing" it almost comes out like "singer". When I say "singing" it almost sounds like "singinger". That's why it's easier to drop the "g".

 

[cupid_stunt]

Her career's over anyway.

She's still an MP, and no doubt even more of a bitter MP now than before, I am sure there will be plenty entertainment coming from her going forward.

In the style of Nadine Dorries, Liz Truss, and Suella Braverman.

 

[T & P]

She's still an MP, and no doubt even more of a bitter MP now than before, I am sure there will be plenty entertainment coming from her going forward.

In the style of Nadine Dorries, Liz Truss, and Suella Braverman.

The Four Horsewomen of the Cuntpocalypse.

 

[hash tag]

Yes, she is back. Ms Patel, sorry Dame Pritti is back. As shadow foreign secretary. Joy, great joy.