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The ongoing stupidity of Home Secretary Priti Patel

Elpenor said:
Had a skim read; feels like the sscenes at Wembley last year are a strong driver for this proposal.
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I don't take too much notice of football, but am vaguely aware of what you're referring to. Booze, cocaine and football hooliganism are a bad mix, but surely there are laws to tackle that stuff already? Plus people on cannabis, MDMA or psychedelics hardly cause the same issues and will still fall foul of this legislation.
 
Johnny Vodka said:
If you read to the end of this pish, you can submit a response.
Click to expand...

I'm on it. I suggest everyone else contribute as well.

What's weird is the way they seem to be fishing for evidence that this stupid policy will work. Although funnily enough, they're not asking for any evidence that it won't.
 
Johnny Vodka said:
Here's the full document. :mad:

Click to expand...

<paranoia derail>

FYI when you post links like this you're usually better off checking and pruning the parameters (stuff after the "?"). In the case of this one, the ?fbclid=IwAR33QNsDks_iTRdtwXU4gCjMH5QZfuM6qzpJw2ywhWXVLvbVGRWOThO0xAY is a facebook link tracker used to see who clicks on what; in the case of the above I think it might provide them with some interesting information on who's interested in government drug policy and who is interested with them. Google use a similar tracking parameter called gclid. They can usually be picked up by any pages running facebook or google tracking scripts (which is most of them these days).

</paranoia derail>

Posting without the param should work just fine :)
 
The fucking patronising dickfuckery of assuming that people only continue to use drugs because they're somehow ignorant about them. Rather than the more obvious reason, that it's because find getting high enjoyable. Yes, there are people who self-medicate using alcohol or recreational drugs, but presumably those folks are only doing so because they find legitimate medical treatment to be inadequate.

In neither case would forcing these groups to sit in a room and listen to some government-sponsored lecture do anything remotely useful for society.
 
NoXion said:
The fucking patronising dickfuckery of assuming that people only continue to use drugs because they're somehow ignorant about them. Rather than the more obvious reason, that it's because find getting high enjoyable. Yes, there are people who self-medicate using alcohol or recreational drugs, but presumably those folks are only doing so because they find legitimate medical treatment to be inadequate.

In neither case would forcing these groups to sit in a room and listen to some government-sponsored lecture do anything remotely useful for society.
Click to expand...

I suspect most of us on here would know more about drugs (either from experience or through having read widely/watching documentaries) than those hosting the drug awareness course, which will obviously just be government anti-drug propaganda. It would be good to get a copy of the presentation that they use. Anyway, I don't know why I'm personally that bothered, as the Scottish government want to pull in a different direction.
 
Just look at this fucking pathetic reasoning:

"Drugs are illegal for a reason. They are harmful, affecting both physical and mental health, relationships, career prospects, and wider society."

So, alcohol prohibition when? Oh that's right, it's already been tried and it was a total fucking disaster that significantly empowered organised crime. Much like what drug prohibition is doing right now.

"Individuals who use so-called recreational illegal substances must understand that they are not only risking their health, but funding dangerous criminals who rely on fear, exploitation and violence."

So give us a legal market, and many of us will happily use it.

Also, there's nothing "so-called" about my recreational usage. Fuck off.
 
They must know that the world is changing around them, with even US States selling cannabis in certain circumstances. Look at Portugal's success story. It's such backwards thinking
 
PR1Berske said:
They must know that the world is changing around them, with even US States selling cannabis in certain circumstances. Look at Portugal's success story. It's such backwards thinking
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It's Tory Britain (or England). Stuck in the past. Different issue, but see Tory politicians' comments on home/hybrid working - again, a huge difference from the Scottish government's view. Sadly, I think England will hang on to these attitudes for a long time yet.
 
Elpenor said:
How long does it take for a white paper to actually become law?
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It depends how much parliamentary time a government is prepared to devote to it.

On a pedantic point, white papers don't become law - they are policy documents, proposals for a law. It's bills that become law.

Bills have to go through a number of stages before becoming law: first reading to the commons, second reading (when it's debated), committee stage (where a parliamentary committee is supposed to sense check it), report stage, third reading (when it's voted on), Lords stage (which can result in ping pong between Commons and Lords if the Lords oppose it), financial privilege stage (which is supposed to cost check a bill) and royal assent (when it becomes an Act and the law of the land).

Bills have been fast tracked into law in a few days or languished for years. On average its around a year.
 
Johnny Vodka said:
Sadly, I think England will hang on to these attitudes for a long time yet.
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I think one of the worst consequences of Brexit/the Corbyn failure, and which I for one underestimated, is it's seemingly persuaded a large part of the English that not just Britain's relationship with Europe but the present in general really can be rewound to a glorious bucolic stasis they think they remember. See also "doing anything about climate change" (or acknowledging anything is happening at all) and "send in warships to stop the migrants".

It's pure jumpers for goalposts reactionary delusion, and the cynical use of it as fan service by the Tories is driving a huge amount of current policy.
 
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Spandex said:
On a pedantic point, white papers don't become law - they are policy documents, proposals for a law.
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On reflection, this isn't a pedantic point at all. Johnson has said he won't pass any new laws before he goes; Patel's position as Home Secretary is far from assured. Just because she's told her Civil Servants to write this stupid, cruel white paper and then gone public to show her War on Drugs credentials doesn't mean anything if she's gonna be gone in a few weeks with no bill or parliamentary time attached to it.

It'll be up to the new leader's Home Sec to take it forward, if they decide to. There's a chance this is the last that'll ever be heard of it. Or maybe Patel will stay in place and push for it. Whatever, its just Patel's brain fart at the moment.
 
Will senior police want to enforce this? Surely there is more important crime to be dealing with?

Nutjob PCCs might seek this as something to campaign on perhaps
 
NoXion said:
The fucking patronising dickfuckery of assuming that people only continue to use drugs because they're somehow ignorant about them. Rather than the more obvious reason, that it's because find getting high enjoyable. Yes, there are people who self-medicate using alcohol or recreational drugs, but presumably those folks are only doing so because they find legitimate medical treatment to be inadequate.

In neither case would forcing these groups to sit in a room and listen to some government-sponsored lecture do anything remotely useful for society.
Click to expand...

I don't particularly like weed these days (sometimes makes me anxious) but have been using it most days as a sleep aid. It gives me relatively dreamless, uninterrupted sleep. Frankly helped me enormously, drink far less than I used to, general physical and mental health have improved hugely (touch wood). The fuck would they propose I do instead? I think even a half-decent GP would balk at saying 'oh yeah, sack that just-before-bed vape off for a course of SSRIs and some sleep meds'. Some bellend with no previous experience (because anyone with experience knows how pointless/damaging that kind of intervention is) certainly isn't adding anything.
 
Elpenor said:
Had a skim read; feels like the sscenes at Wembley last year are a strong driver for this proposal.
Click to expand...
Sorry, it's just more culture war bullshit and trying to look hard, whilst distracting from the real problems in scoiety
Johnny Vodka said:
I suspect most of us on here would know more about drugs (either from experience or through having read widely/watching documentaries) than those hosting the drug awareness course, which will obviously just be government anti-drug propaganda. It would be good to get a copy of the presentation that they use. Anyway, I don't know why I'm personally that bothered, as the Scottish government want to pull in a different direction.
Click to expand...
I think you'll find under tier 1 and 3 of this proposal that Scotland is included as it's about the MDA rather than devolved Scottish policing.

Look forward to seeing you on our first course.
 
TBF, we should throw something back at the cunts and put them on trial. With MDMA/psilocybin showing so much promise for treating mental health issues, why do they continue to put massive red-tape and financial barriers in place for UK researchers? Patel has been in a position to make this research easier and she's done nothing, which probably does equate to loss of life and loss of quality for life for some folk.
 
teqniq said:
She's completely taking the piss here:



E2a maybe this is why:

Click to expand...

It's pretty common knowledge that the regime in Rwanda originated from refugees, who fought with Museveni in Uganda. Congolese children have been recruited, taken to Rwanda, trained and sent back to fight proxy wars over resources in Kivu and beyond. This has been happening for years and is no secret.

The UK keeps a diplomatic mission in Kigali that among other tasks is charged with trying to understand the politics and the human rights situation. The current government seem to think that its only value is to push trade and broker grubby deals that end up giving Rwanda a veneer of legitimacy on the global stage. And the High Commissioner is ignored by Patel anyway.

It's all so fucking dark and corrupt.
 
Re the drugs thing.

Transform's response: Reviewing the Government’s New ‘Tough’ Consequences for Drug Possession | Transform

Scotland is resisting it.

www.gov.scot

Drug law reform: letter from Minister for Drugs Policy

Letter from the Minister for Drugs Policy, Angela Constance, to UK Minister for Crime and Policing.
www.gov.scot www.gov.scot

Dear Tom,

I am writing to congratulate you on your new role as Minister of State for Crime and Policing. In my role as the Minister for Drug Policy in Scotland, working directly to the First Minister, I would welcome the opportunity to meet with you and work on the areas where we are able to reduce the harms of drug use and address the number of related deaths. The number of these deaths have reached unacceptable record levels across the United Kingdom and are particularly acute in Scotland.

I am sure you will be aware of the on-going discussions between our governments on this issue. My recent discussion with Kit Malthouse included Safer Drug Consumption Facilities, the need for pill press regulations and the introduction of drug checking facilities of which I’m sure you will have received the detail.

I was disappointed to read the recent Home Office publication Swift, Certain, Tough that outlines new consequences for drug possession, with measures such as passport confiscation for drug possession that could apply here in Scotland. Increasing or expanding criminal sanctions have not in the past proven successful in preventing drug deaths. I would therefore oppose any decision to require Scotland to implement any of these measures and would highlight the significant risks inherent in this approach. I know that my officials have raised a number of concerns about the impact of this policy and the lack of evidence behind them.

Scotland has taken a different approach to the UK Government, implementing evidence informed measures that aim to treat drug use as a health issue. This is in line with recommendations from the evidence including from the ACMD; the recommendations of two UK Parliamentary Committees, the Scottish Affairs Committee and the Health and Social Care Committee; as well as other experts and academics.

The most recent report on this issue was published by the independent Scottish Drug Deaths Taskforce yesterday. It is called Changing Lives and I believe that the Drug Deaths Taskforce sent you the details yesterday morning. The report is available on the Drug Deaths Taskforce website. It identifies what needs to change to address Scotland's public health emergency and calls for swift and decisive action. It includes 20 evidence based recommendations all of which the Scottish Government will consider in detail and respond to as soon as possible.

A key recommendation is included for the UK Government to immediately begin the process of reviewing the law to enable a public health approach to drugs to be implemented. The detailed actions that the Drug Deaths Taskforce would like to see taken by the UK Government are highlighted in the Annex to this letter. I would be grateful if you could provide a detailed response to these actions.

As outlined above, a review of current legislation is in line with other expert groups that have examined this issue. I therefore question how much evidence will be enough. Legislative change, based on a robust evidence base of the public health approach would create a meaningful shift, like other countries have successfully delivered across the world.

In the meantime we continue to do everything in our power to implement a public health approach. The First Minister announced a National Mission to reduce drug related deaths and harms supported by an additional £50 million per annum. We will be publishing our high level plan for the National Mission next month and I would be pleased to provide you with an overview of that.

I would therefore welcome your commitment to working together to tackle drug-related harms and deaths and would like to meet to discuss what we can do collectively to respond to this public health emergency.

I look forward to your response on the above points.

Angela Constance MSP

Minister for Drugs Policy
Click to expand...

Annex A​

Scottish drug deaths taskforce: UK Government recommendations and actions​

Recommendation 19: The UK Government should immediately begin the process of reviewing the law to enable a public health approach to drugs to be implemented. The Scottish Government should continue to engage with the UK Government to support these changes. In the interim, the Scottish Government should do everything in its power to implement a public health approach.

Action 2: The UK Government should amend the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 and Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2000 to allow for the legal provision of a wider range of drug paraphernalia through harm-reduction and treatment services. This is essential to enabling safer drug consumption

Action 4: The UK Government should review the regulations on dispensing and prescription forms for controlled drugs to take account of clinical and technological advances since implementation in 2001.

Action 5: The Scottish Government should work with the UK Government to deliver progress on the regulation of pill presses, including developing a suitable licensing system to reduce related harm.

Action 6: The UK Government should urgently remove the exemption set out in S3.1 of the Equality Act 2010, (Disability) Regulations 2010, and make drug dependency part of the protected characteristic of disability.

Action 9: The UK Government should undertake a root and branch review of the Misuse of Drugs Act, reforming the law to support harm-reduction measures and implement a public health approach.

Action 10: If the UK Government are not willing to reform the Misuse of Drugs Act, it should commit to exploring all available options openly with the Scottish Government to enable Scotland to take a public health approach.

Action 40: The UK Government should implement legislative changes to support the introduction of Supervised Drug Consumption Facilities. In the interim, the Scottish Government should continue its efforts with stakeholders to support their implementation within the existing legal framework.

Action 44: The UK Government should permanently reclassify naloxone from a POM to a Pharmacy or General Sales List medicine.

Action 45: In the absence of a full reclassification of naloxone, the Scottish Government should work closely with the UK Government to ensure that the changes planned reflect the breadth of the Lord Advocate’s Statement of Prosecution Policy in Scotland.

Action 71: The UK Government should conduct a review of the regulations on prescriptions by the end of this year. The review should take account of the changes made since the initial regulations were implemented in 2001.
Click to expand...
 
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