The children of Windrush
- Thread starter Tropi
- Start date
We only have what free movement of labour we have to service free movement of capital. Liberals dress it up as a progressive policy but it isn’t really, given the context.
I wonder what their justification was in throwing them away?
If space was an issue could they not have been digitised, or is that expecting too much?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
In technical, Marxian, terms, EU-defined "freedom of movement" is as discussed here in this reference to Marx from butchersapron, and my reply: Urban v's the Commentariat. It's about factor mobility and labour arbitrage.
Liberals being blind to one side of the ledger.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Ach, come on, you're just obfuscating. I'm asking a pretty straightforward question based in current reality. The fact is, there's a decision about how to treat national borders because nations are currently a real thing that exists. Speaking for myself, I am in favour of some level of border control because I think otherwise an unmanageable situation would arise, or at least a situation where the quality of life of lots of people in this country would be affected to an extent that I don't think I'd be willing to accept it in exchange for the benefits it might bring to people who currently have an even worse quality of life. I'm aware that this position results in a situation where the suffering of people elsewhere in the world is not alleviated when perhaps it could be. I'm aware that a consequence of maintaining borders is that desperate people drown in the med. I'm not going to shy away from that. Refusing to answer the question about what, pragmatically, should be done in the here and now does shy away from that.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Should be done by whom, though? I've answered what I think we should do.
(Also, you're - deliberately or accidentally - confusing nation in your reply and state in what you quote).
They’re good posts. Another positive for Capital is that it further aids the atomisation of the labour force and the smashing up of wc communities (by making the labour market more transient and thus people leaving/joining new areas in search of work).
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Those who have the power to change what happens at the UK border when someone from another country arrives and wants to cross it.
You can replace nation with state in my reply if you want. Both nation and state are real things, in the sense that their existence is felt by people. I'm guessing at what you really mean by talking about states and ledgers, because you're not being explicit in what you want to say. Yes I'm talking in terms of this state or that because as far as I'm concerned they are real things which affect what happens at borders, and what happens to people, including people chained to escorts on planes.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
This was mentioned up-thread. The Indy piece is incredibly shoddily written, though.
"Thousands of landing cards – recording dates of arrival in the UK – were thrown away, despite staff warnings that it would be harder for Caribbean-born residents to establish their right to be in the UK.
The files were discarded in October that year, when the current prime minister was home secretary, a former Home Office employee revealed."
What year? With what is "that" supposed to agree?
May was Home Secy for 6 years, from 2010 to 2016. The decision to discard the disembarkation cards was, according to the Guardian, taken in 2010.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Who is that?
If you have a specific question you want to ask me, by all means do so.
I am being explicit. I'm talking explicitly about what capital does and what workers should do in response. Solidarity. Mutual aid. Practical cooperation. Including, where appropriate, physically preventing the types of scenes you describe.
I've even used economic terms, and provided links to what they mean.
Yossarian
⏭️
And that's exactly what the government wants to happen, of course - the demands for unfeasible amounts of paperwork aren't to combat fraud, they're because the government has made promises on reducing immigration that it can't really deliver on, so it is deliberately trying to make the process as difficult and discouraging as possible.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Let's say parliament. Would you like to see parliament pass the necessary legislation to remove all restrictions on who can enter the UK. There's my specific question.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
You say I am ignoring the ledger. I am not clear exactly what you mean by the "ledger" in this context.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Yes. I'd also like to see it dissolve itself and dismantle capitalism. It isn't going to do either, though.
You probably know, I'm an anarchist communist, and my analysis of what parliaments do is that they are not there to serve the interests of the people, but to serve the interests of the capitalist classes. The legislation they pass has what is known as "unintended consequences" in large degree because of that dynamic. (Aside from the other more human factors, like "fucking up"). To separate out this one variable in what a parliament may do (vary the degree of control over immigration from 0-100 and any point in between) from the economic conditions in which that parliament is operating is actually, once the context has been pointed out, disingenuous.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
No immigrants please, we're Marxists.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
One side of. It's a metaphor. You are acting as if capital and labour are the same interests. They aren't.
Treacle Toes
Time
With a British passport to boot so therefore not troubled by the idea/ability of being free to move around.
It's a nonsense question. You're asking if, installed tomorrow as head of some fantasy government, I would unilaterally impose open borders while everything else remains unchanged? Well... I can't imagine a situation where such a government would come about. So what's the point of posing such a question?
Looks like “children of Windrush” are now being reassured they’re safe from deportation and benefit stoppages. Whether they get back pay and compensation for lost earnings remains to be seen (not too hopeful).
All this seems strange when child killers and others with no British connections cannot be deported after serving sentences for crimes because that would deprive them of a family life with relatives who moved here under EU rules...
Philip Lawrence killer 'cannot be deported'
All this seems strange when child killers and others with no British connections cannot be deported after serving sentences for crimes because that would deprive them of a family life with relatives who moved here under EU rules...
Philip Lawrence killer 'cannot be deported'
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Which is precisely why the answer you get from nonsense questions doesn't tell you anything useful.
Yes, thats funny to a certain extent. But Britain doesn't have 'imaginary geo political borders'. It has very real and very wet borders which can't be expanded. Which is why we need to control how many people cross them.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you don't have to believe in open borders to realise this is an utterly shabby way to treat people. I've got pretty conservative views on migration. I don't think we had much choice but to change the immigration rules in 1971 and we need to change them again now. That doesn't mean we don't have a duty to treat everyone here with total respect and consideration.
I’m not anti-immigrant so please don’t intimate that I am. Fact remains that immigration generally involves people uprooting and leaving their communities in search of work elsewhere. Surely the more progressive position would be for investment to happen to ensure people could attain their needs and desires without separating them from their friends and families (but to live elsewhere also if they so choose)?
That economic forced emigration is dressed up as something that’s ‘good’ by the left has always perplexed me tbh.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Yes, it is. However, from today's news, it is being remedied ASAP.
Treacle Toes
Time
Go away and take your decade old article and grudge with you.
Similar threads
