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The children of Windrush

Slo-mo said:
I'm going to say something here not everyone will agree with, and that's this.....none of this was a issue before we had mass EU immigration.

Race relations steadily improved through the 80s and 90s. Only nasty fringe parties like NF and BNP talked about deportation. Up to the mid 00s most people were sympathetic to asylum seekers.

Then too many purely economic migrants were allowed to come from Eastern European countries..... That is what caused this 'hostile environment', the government couldn't control EU migration so they started casting around for someone else to blame, trying to reduce non EU immigration to virtually zero, going to any lengths trying to root out illegal immigrants and never mind how many legal ones got caught up in the process.

I firmly believe if we'd controlled EU migration better we wouldn't be in this mess. But we can't turn the clock back and we certainly shouldn't blame the EU migrants.
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As David Lammy said, the Tory party allowed themselves to get manipulated by #kipper cunts and this is the shameful result of this.
 
The insaneness of unmitigated free movement between European countries which instigated Brexit etc shouldn’t have been somehow muddled with the status of those who plugged labour shortages decades ago and have been here for years. That the govt didn’t have the foresight to see this coming from their policies further illustrates their ineptness to govern.
 
steeplejack said:
can someone please explain why Theresa May, Amber Rudd's boss, is so consumingly obsessed with immigration?

she always has been, dating back to her days before office, and I am absolutely at a loss to understand why.

this has led to the indefensible "hostile environment" policies where Home Office officials are given targets to meet and no one is much interested in how they get there. That's before we get onto here immigration vans and the batshit-insane obsession with deporting recently graduated foreigners as soon as their studies finish. It's also the root of this current horrible problem for an ageing generation of folk who regard the UK as their home and have every right to. I very rarely agree with David Lammy but he made an excellent speech on this today.

just...why? where does this obsession with immigration come from and where will it end?
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I don't think this is about May being obsessed with immigration to be honest - the way in which this policy was implemented (against advice, reason, the lessons of experience and/or sense) is very similar to the way in which almost all the significant policies in the Home Office of her day were implemented.
 
agricola said:
I don't think this is about May being obsessed with immigration to be honest - the way in which this policy was implemented (against advice, reason, the lessons of experience and/or sense) is very similar to the way in which almost all the significant policies in the Home Office of her day were implemented.
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hence my use of the word "obsession"...pressing ahead with a policy against advice, experience and reason just...because.

I can't understand it. Nor can I understand how people bring themselves to vote for such an inhuman, cruel, vicious bigot.
 
It's curious seeing labour get on their high horse about this considering they introduced the legislation that started this process. The immigration, asylum and nationality act 2006 that bought in employer immigration checks. Various changes to the benefit legislation with ever increasing demands placed on migrants. Charging oversea nationals for NHS treatment that again required immigration checks. These are the policies that caused problems many of the cases that have gained media attention. They pre-date May environment of hostility by almost a decade.

About a decade ago I was working at an advice centre in an area with quite a large older African and Caribbean population and had a whole spate people loosing jobs, refused benefits and left destitute. And if they could scrape together the fee for an application maybe they'd get a decision in 6 - 18 months. About six months ago I was representing in a social security tribunal for a who'd come from Ghana 50 years ago guy who'd been refused ESA 13 months ago for being a person subject to immigration control. Thankfully his some what colourful life of being in and out of prison and on probahtion made for quite strong evidence his was in the uk for that period. But again it was labour introduced legislation that he fell foul of.

Trying to understand developments in immigration policy by looking at whether the bad party is in power is a mistake. Whether it be dog-whistle conservatives and frothing at the mouth open racists or woke neoliberals and champions of multicultralism, both result in increasing restrictions on migrants. This is the same UK as it is across Europe and the USA. Thinking this is restricted to May being under the sway of 'kippers and racist Brexit voters is nonsense.

It's also extremely worrying in terms of what it means for current government policy for EEA citizens post Brexit. The current plan is continue using EU legislation to determine settled status for EEA residents, albeit with a simplified application process. EEA citizens and 'generation Windrush' are in a similar sort of boat regarding their settled status. In both cases there settled status relies on their circumstances and history in the UK rather than a grant of leave or visa given by the government. Just like 'generation Windrush' there's going to be a lot of people caught out by the evidence requirement- especially since EEA freedom of movement is about free movement of labour and services- not people.
 
Slo-mo said:
I'm going to say something here not everyone will agree with, and that's this.....none of this was a issue before we had mass EU immigration.

Race relations steadily improved through the 80s and 90s. Only nasty fringe parties like NF and BNP talked about deportation. Up to the mid 00s most people were sympathetic to asylum seekers.

Then too many purely economic migrants were allowed to come from Eastern European countries..... That is what caused this 'hostile environment', the government couldn't control EU migration so they started casting around for someone else to blame, trying to reduce non EU immigration to virtually zero, going to any lengths trying to root out illegal immigrants and never mind how many legal ones got caught up in the process.

I firmly believe if we'd controlled EU migration better we wouldn't be in this mess. But we can't turn the clock back and we certainly shouldn't blame the EU migrants.
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As you and I know we have been discussing this issue of Windrush immigration status on Brixton forum before this thread started. Understandably as Brixton is home to Windrush generation.

I noticed this thread and had a look.

Back on Brixton forum when I brought up parallels between the way recent East Europeans and Wiindrush generation have been treated you came back saying that "we" are talking just about Windrush.

So what happened? You didn't think I would look at this thread?

As I posted up on Brixton a while back a Afro Carribbean friend of mine in Brixton ( whose father was Windrush) said to me the way people are going on about East Europeans is the same way that people used to go about his Father's generation who came here after WW2.

There are parallels between the Windrush generation and East Europeans who came here.

After WW2 Commonwealth citizens had free movement. Due to racist/ anti immigrant backlash in 1971 this was curtailed. Existing Windrush being given leave to remain. Which is inferior to what they had before.

The same could happen to existing EU citizens here.

UKIP, as my Brixton Afro Carribbean friend said are racist, pushed the immigration issue to promote Brexit.

I notice you aren't putting up post like this on Brixton forum.

May "hostile environment" wasn't forced on Tories.

This issue came up at work today. The people I work with aren't heavy politicos. They like me in London work with "immigrants" and have partners ( including me) from EU and beyond.

What you are saying is bollox.
 
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marty21 said:
As David Lammy said, the Tory party allowed themselves to get manipulated by #kipper cunts and this is the shameful result of this.
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That involvement could/does only work though if the Tory party were/are complicit and they are, they are the base of those positions also... Extreme nationalist groups like the NF, BNP, EDL and UKIP give the Tories something to hide behind whilst being the ones institutionalising the policies and ideas they claim are just too OPENLY right wing for them.
 
captainmission said:
It's curious seeing labour get on their high horse about this considering they introduced the legislation that started this process. The immigration, asylum and nationality act 2006 that bought in employer immigration checks. Various changes to the benefit legislation with ever increasing demands placed on migrants. Charging oversea nationals for NHS treatment that again required immigration checks. These are the policies that caused problems many of the cases that have gained media attention. They pre-date May environment of hostility by almost a decade.

About a decade ago I was working at an advice centre in an area with quite a large older African and Caribbean population and had a whole spate people loosing jobs, refused benefits and left destitute. And if they could scrape together the fee for an application maybe they'd get a decision in 6 - 18 months. About six months ago I was representing in a social security tribunal for a who'd come from Ghana 50 years ago guy who'd been refused ESA 13 months ago for being a person subject to immigration control. Thankfully his some what colourful life of being in and out of prison and on probahtion made for quite strong evidence his was in the uk for that period. But again it was labour introduced legislation that he fell foul of.

Trying to understand developments in immigration policy by looking at whether the bad party is in power is a mistake. Whether it be dog-whistle conservatives and frothing at the mouth open racists or woke neoliberals and champions of multicultralism, both result in increasing restrictions on migrants. This is the same UK as it is across Europe and the USA. Thinking this is restricted to May being under the sway of 'kippers and racist Brexit voters is nonsense.

It's also extremely worrying in terms of what it means for current government policy for EEA citizens post Brexit. The current plan is continue using EU legislation to determine settled status for EEA residents, albeit with a simplified application process. EEA citizens and 'generation Windrush' are in a similar sort of boat regarding their settled status. In both cases there settled status relies on their circumstances and history in the UK rather than a grant of leave or visa given by the government. Just like 'generation Windrush' there's going to be a lot of people caught out by the evidence requirement- especially since EEA freedom of movement is about free movement of labour and services- not people.
Click to expand...
Yes, you could argue that Labour, certainly in the second half of their time in office, was more hostile to immigrants than the Tory governments of Thatcher and Major. There was of course a lot discrimination against black and asian people in the 80s and 90s,but not necessarily government hostility. I don't remember immigration coming up much at all in the elections of 87 , 92, 97 or 2001. I remember a distinct gear change in 2005 with Michael Howard and perhaps Labour responded to that. The concern at that point was asylum seekers, EU migration was still in its infancy.

But then there was another gear shift in 2010 of course, and we were well on course for the present mess. It's too late now, but David Cameron's first move in office should have been to ask the EU for an immigration pause, and to kick up a stink until he got it. Ironically enough if the nettle had been grasped in 2010 ish we'd probably be close to being able to take the pause button off by now.
 
Slo-mo said:
Yes, you could argue that Labour, certainly in the second half of their time in office, was more hostile to immigrants than the Tory governments of Thatcher and Major. There was of course a lot discrimination against black and asian people in the 80s and 90s,but not necessarily government hostility. I don't remember immigration coming up much at all in the elections of 87 , 92, 97 or 2001. I remember a distinct gear change in 2005 with Michael Howard and perhaps Labour responded to that. The concern at that point was asylum seekers, EU migration was still in its infancy.

But then there was another gear shift in 2010 of course, and we were well on course for the present mess. It's too late now, but David Cameron's first move in office should have been to ask the EU for an immigration pause, and to kick up a stink until he got it. Ironically enough if the nettle had been grasped in 2010 ish we'd probably be close to being able to take the pause button off by now.
Click to expand...


How about coming back on Brixton forum and voicing your views on EU immigration.

You right wing cunt.
 
Slo-mo said:
Yes, you could argue that Labour, certainly in the second half of their time in office, was more hostile to immigrants than the Tory governments of Thatcher and Major. There was of course a lot discrimination against black and asian people in the 80s and 90s,but not necessarily government hostility. I don't remember immigration coming up much at all in the elections of 87 , 92, 97 or 2001. I remember a distinct gear change in 2005 with Michael Howard and perhaps Labour responded to that. The concern at that point was asylum seekers, EU migration was still in its infancy.
Click to expand...

Apart from it wasn't just the second half- the late 1990's and early 2000's saw massive extension of the detention system, the removal of support for destitute asylum seekers and massive practical barriers that stopped people claiming asylum in the first place. Asylum claims peaked in 2003 and sharply declined after that, largely because of the harshness of the policies new labour introduced. Public opinion regarding asylum seekers was trailing government policy, not forcing it. Certainly the tory governemnt of the 80's and 90's was more expressive in their open racism than the urbane liberals of new labour, yet still had a less restrictive immigration policy.
 
seems like a chunk of law was quietly changed in 2014

All longstanding Commonwealth residents were protected from enforced removal by a specific exemption in the 1999 Immigration and Asylum Act – a clause removed in the updated 2014 legislation.
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from guardian article here
 
killer b said:
this leaflet (and accompanying DVD) created by the Home Office for those *cough* accidental deportees exposes the lie of the accidental bit. (found here)

Da54IWMW0AEFLaW.jpg
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This appears to have been compiled by someone whose only knowledge or experiences of the Caribbean come from listening to Dreadlock Holiday by 10CC, they may as well have put ‘concentrate on trucking right’
Appalling.
 
Two times i've been on flights from uk to Jamaica where deportees were on board. These were commercial virgin flights, and each person being deported was 'accompanied' by big blokes in uniform (i remember they were in uniform but now can't remember what) and they were physically restrained into their seats. I presumed they were people being deported after doing a certain amount of prison time or something but actually I have no clue, maybe its the same treatment if you can't produce the necessary paperwork about what infant school you went to.
 
Gramsci said:
How about coming back on Brixton forum and voicing your views on EU immigration.

You right wing cunt.
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Charmed I'm sure :)

I didn't put this on the Brixton forum because that wasn't the place for yet another debate about Brexit!

But I'm perfectly open with people about which way I voted (out) and why ( to reduce immigration)

If that makes me a ' right wing cunt' so be it, there are a lot of us out there in that case.
 
captainmission said:
It's curious seeing labour get on their high horse about this considering they introduced the legislation that started this process. The immigration, asylum and nationality act 2006 that bought in employer immigration checks. Various changes to the benefit legislation with ever increasing demands placed on migrants. Charging oversea nationals for NHS treatment that again required immigration checks. These are the policies that caused problems many of the cases that have gained media attention. They pre-date May environment of hostility by almost a decade.
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Policies of a government in which David Lammy was a minister. His outrage rings a bit hollow, now.
 
As much as I despise the Tories, I don't think Labour are much better on this. Both have consistently courted the racist vote (whilst simultaneously not wanting to disturb to any significant extent the benefits to capital of a trans-national labour market), in their self-interested grasping.
 
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Magnus McGinty said:
The insaneness of unmitigated free movement between European countries which instigated Brexit etc shouldn’t have been somehow muddled with the status of those who plugged labour shortages decades ago and have been here for years. That the govt didn’t have the foresight to see this coming from their policies further illustrates their ineptness to govern.
Click to expand...

So a bunch of people who weren't able to vote in the referendum are the ones who 'instigated' brexit?

I'd love to see your working out for that one mate.

I'd also love to see how you worked out that EU migrants have not filled skills shortages, have not been here for years etc.
 
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