The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
Johnson is going to end up looking more like him than his beloved Winston Churchill, I suspect...
philosophical
Well-Known Member
I agree it didn't give any indication at all as to what any aspect of brexit would look like except
It would be for the 'United Kingdom', whatever it turns out to be.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
NC even at his feeblest far superior to Boris 'hitler won at Stalingrad' Johnson
teuchter
je suis teuchter
You reckon it's practical for everyone, or even most people, to grow their own food?
Isn’t the “people won’t accept it” argument the exact one you are on the opposite side of when you advocate for the end of private motor cars?
MrCurry
right after this urgent rest
Missed that - I’ve not been keeping up with the thread, but great news if some of the uncertainty is finally getting resolved.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Late pitch for most optimistic post of the year award.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Yes. However, living without private car ownership is a little less dramatic than living without any global exchange of goods, and it's also something that many people already manage to do.
Flavour
hang the bankers
It's not as impractical as your somewhat limited imagination. A tiny proportion of the world population do, after all, grow food for the whole world. So the simple idea that those that can growing some of their own food where possible is not some hippy dream. As stated by others, allotments were rather common until not long ago. And they should be common again. Every onion grown and eaten without any exchange of money is a good thing. Just because not absolutely fucking everyone can realistically do it tomorrow doesn't mean that a lot of people couldn't put a bit of effort it. How much land in the UK is just sitting there uselessly looking green and pretty when it could be growing cabbages? Rather a lot, I think. And that includes the majority of lawns/gardens.
Well, in the short term it can't be worse than 'no deal,' but beyond that it's just a matter of how much lube they slap on the cock before we all get royally shafted. There are no good outcomes any more.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
What I said was nonsense was the idea that everyone can grow their own food. Can some people grow some of their own food? Sure. Can this have a big impact on the energy/environmental impacts of agricultural production? In my opinion, not really. Just some fiddling around the edges, for people with the time and the inclination.
Flavour
hang the bankers
Well obviously there would need to be a pretty much total shutdown of the global meat industry, or at very least all cattle farming, in order to achieve measurable CO2 reductions but just because an action won't make immediate global impact doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
maomao
普費斯
Whose idea was that?
Local/household food production should be encouraged and should have been as an official response to the Brexit vote.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
'put a bit of effort in'
Without a garden or an allotment?
I agree that we should have lots more allotments, but it is not within the power of those without allotments just to magic one up for themselves with 'a bit of effort'.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
What I disagree with is the idea that it's realistic to aim for complete "self sufficiency" at any level other than a planetary one.
That doesn't mean that there aren't lots of things that could be more locally sourced than they are now. There are some things for which it makes sense and some things for which it doesn't.
And there seems to be a lot of fantasy about what it would actually involve to become truly "self sufficient" for food at an individual level.
Flavour
hang the bankers
stop pretending to be the voice defending working class interests on this board because you are not. and stop imagining that people without the means cannot attain them through collective action. that's the whole fucking point.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Well we can agree on that point. I would expect Teuchter agrees as well. But that doesn't put what you suggest within practical reach of the millions of people who do not own or rent any outdoor space.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You're the one telling people to grow their own food ffs.
Clueless, class-free analysis. That's liberal.
Flavour
hang the bankers
Yes only Liberal Democrats with double-barrelled surnames who live in Totnes can do that. Absolutely impossible for anyone else. Poor pathetic working classes, oh how we must pity them, with their impossibilities.
My grandfather, who was a single father to 3 daughters in the 1960s and worked as a teacher, shared allotment space with a bunch of other people in his community in Stoke-on-Trent and grew a significant proportion of their food. What a middle class wanker.
My grandfather, who was a single father to 3 daughters in the 1960s and worked as a teacher, shared allotment space with a bunch of other people in his community in Stoke-on-Trent and grew a significant proportion of their food. What a middle class wanker.
bimble
floofy
Who is the protagonist in this romance ?
Treacle Toes
Time
I can see the point you are trying to make but think you are also guilty of making a similar broad brush assumption to that you are bemoaning.
Access to land to grow food.
The skills and time to grow it.
Two really important things anyone thinking of doing it needs. Many working class people don't have access to these vital things.
So whilst it's not impossible it certainly ain't that simple either.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
It seems (thanks google) that maybe about 0.25 acres is what you might need to be self sufficient in vegetables on an allotment basis. That's probably ignoring stuff like fertiliser. Per person. Take England. Population about 50 million. So, about 12.5 million acres of allotments needed. The total land area of England is about 30 million acres. So, more than 1/3 of the entire country would need to be allotments. London alone would need about 2 million acres of allotments, and the current area of London is about a third of a million acres, so all that would need to spread out around the edge. And all Londoners would need to get to their allotment and back every few days at least, to take care of it. It all sounds like it would work fine.
Treacle Toes
Time
I have a big enough garden and have a section that I use to grow food. It is a lot of work, learning and effort. Can you imagine the green belt being divided up into allotments? Every single 'Disgusted of not London' would be furious!
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
Good news about a deal (if signed) but would it have played out differently without Covid? I say "Good news" in the very limited sense of where we are.
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