The American mass shooting thread

[Johnny Canuck3]

Does Richard Ramirez qualify as a 'white man'?

 

[butchersapron]

I'll take a stab at this. You'll notice that almost all of these are perpetrated by men and mostly white men. I think out of 30 events like this, there was only one woman recorded as the shooter. I suspect that there's a sense of entitlement that comes from being a white man in a racist and sexist society. Since the empowerment of minorities and women, men have lost the automatic access they had to good jobs, education, and the power within society that goes with that. However, the expectation of material success is still there. When that expectation isn't met it has be hugely alienating.

(I'll admit that I could be completely full of shit here.)

You could argue that it's a privilege thing. Not a white thing.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Son of Sam: jewish. But white, I guess.

 

[likesfish]

I really don't want to think what the medics said about that.

They both got 28 days in the guardroom case of march the guilty barstards in sgt major.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

http://blackpeoria.wordpress.com/list-of-black-serial-killers/

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

They do have a love affair with guns, but remember this is a society that was hewn out of some seriously inhospitable terrain. In relatively recent memory, it was a settler society- you looked after yourself. If your neighbour tried to steal your land, or wolves ate your livestock there was no government or social structure to deal with it- your family starved. It is almost a folk memory that you needed a gun to protect you and yours.

I'm going to quibble with this a little. Too much is made of guns in settlement. Most of the people who went west didn't have the money to own a gun. I think people had to work together to survive more than people generally think. You wouldn't be shooting the neighbor who helped you build your barn or cared for your wife when she was sick with malaria.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

You could argue that it's a privilege thing. Not a white thing.

You very well could. It's also an expectation thing.

 

[likesfish]

There's always those two black dudes in Washington.

That was more a criminal enterpise/ serial killer rather than going batshit killing as many people before sucking a bullet.

 

[stuff_it]

http://blackpeoria.wordpress.com/list-of-black-serial-killers/

Have you read the comments section?

I'm not sure I'd quote that sort of site as a valid source of info.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Does Richard Ramirez qualify as a 'white man'?

Isn't he a serial killer? Totally different profile than spree killers.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I'm going to quibble with this a little. Too much is made of guns in settlement. Most of the people who went west didn't have the money to own a gun. I think people had to work together to survive more than people generally think. You wouldn't be shooting the neighbor who helped you build your barn or cared for your wife when she was sick with malaria.

Every farmer and rancher I've ever known in Canada has a gun. Settlers had guns not necessarily to shoot other settlers, but to shoot things for the dinner pot, and to shoot coyotes that bothered the chickens. A double barreled shotgun didn't cost a lot.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Have you read the comments section?

I'm not sure I'd quote that sort of site as a valid source of info.

The comments section of any site are awful and should really be ignored.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Have you read the comments section?

I'm not sure I'd quote that sort of site as a valid source of info.

Hard to say. I suppose someone could google all those names to see if they're made up.

http://www.theroot.com/views/6-stereotype-defying-murderers

 

[stuff_it]

Every farmer and rancher I've ever known in Canada has a gun. Settlers had guns not necessarily to shoot other settlers, but to shoot things for the dinner pot, and to shoot coyotes that bothered the chickens. A double barreled shotgun didn't cost a lot.

As most farmers in the UK have a shotgun to shoot vermin. I fail to see your point.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Every farmer and rancher I've ever known in Canada has a gun. Settlers had guns not necessarily to shoot other settlers, but to shoot things for the dinner pot, and to shoot coyotes that bothered the chickens. A double barreled shotgun didn't cost a lot.

We're talking a 100 years ago. I'm sure there were guns but there wouldn't four or five in one house and they'd most likely not be handguns.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

As most farmers in the UK have a shotgun to shoot vermin. I fail to see your point.

The question is, do Manter and Yuwipi see my point, as they were the ones discussing the prevalence of guns in the old west.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

We're talking a 100 years ago. I'm sure there were guns but there wouldn't four or five in one house and they'd most likely not be handguns.

I agree. Probably one shotgun.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

There's always those two black dudes in Washington.

I don't believe I said it was all white men.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

The question is, do Manter and Yuwipi see my point, as they were the ones discussing the prevalence of guns in the old west.

I admit that I'm a bit confused as to the point. Perhaps you could explain it again. I am a bit sleep deprived.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I don't believe I said it was all white men.

I thought your theory was that mass killing was primarily the purview of the middle class white man who has found his perogatives to a good job and a nice life thwarted.

If the thwarting of economic goals creates these killers, I'd expect that the majority would be black, hispanic, etc, ie all those people assigned to poverty and the lower class by... the middle class white man.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I admit that I'm a bit confused as to the point. Perhaps you could explain it again. I am a bit sleep deprived.

You took issue with Manter saying that guns have been ubiquitous throughout american history. You talked about settlers etc being too poor to have a gun. I disagree with the reasons that Manter put forward as to why settlers would have a gun, but I'm of the opinion that most people who lived on the land back in the 19th century and before, had guns.

 

[moochedit]

The comments section of any site are awful and should really be ignored.

it's not just the comments though. see what it says next to number 7 on the list.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I thought your theory was that mass killing was primarily the purview of the middle class white man who has found his perogatives to a good job and a nice life thwarted.

If the thwarting of economic goals creates these killers, I'd expect that the majority would be black, hispanic, etc, ie all those people assigned to poverty and the lower class by... the middle class white man.

I think the stats I've seen place it at a substantial majority being white men.

As far as minorities being more likely to be spree killers, you have to remember that expectations are different in minority households. The expectation is that you may succeed, but its going to be a long god damn hard slog. You might have to earn something three or four times over before you actually get it. And there's an entirely rational expectation that you're going to see less qualified people be promoted ahead of you. The expectation that you may not be treated fairly, makes you a bit more resilent to setbacks.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

You took issue with Manter saying that guns have been ubiquitous throughout american history. You talked about settlers etc being too poor to have a gun. I disagree with the reasons that Manter put forward as to why settlers would have a gun, but I'm of the opinion that most people who lived on the land back in the 19th century and before, had guns.

But the point I was trying to make there was that there was more cooperation than competition. I agree that there was probably one gun per househould, but it wasn't something that's sole purpose was to kill people.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

But the point I was trying to make there was that there was more cooperation than competition. I agree that there was probably one gun per househould, but it wasn't something that's sole purpose was to kill people.

Then we agree. A gun was a tool on a farm or ranch or homestead.

 

[phildwyer]

No, I don't think that at all. Hers was a normal reaction to the insane prospect of potentially being responsible for shooting and possibly killing another human being. Being numb to it is the abnormal reaction.

But she was only shooting at a target. I truly don't see why that should distress anyone.

 

[Diamond]

I would be very surprised if most people who lived on the frontier had guns. Am more than prepared to be proved wrong but guns would have been very expensive items with very expensive ammunition, which seems discordant with the idea of a frontier settler as being poverty-stricken in search of wealth.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I would be very surprised if most people who lived on the frontier had guns. Am more than prepared to be proved wrong but guns would have been very expensive items with very expensive ammunition, which seems discordant with the idea of a frontier settler as being poverty-stricken in search of wealth.

The true story of the Old West is boring by comparison. Because of the need to hunt for food or protect themselves from wild animals, many people did have guns. However, fans of Hollywood westerns may be surprised to learn that many western towns had strict gun ordinances, making it illegal to carry guns in town. People entering the town were required to surrender their firearms to the sheriff.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/the-wild-west-of-myth-and-reality.html

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I would be very surprised if most people who lived on the frontier had guns. Am more than prepared to be proved wrong but guns would have been very expensive items with very expensive ammunition, which seems discordant with the idea of a frontier settler as being poverty-stricken in search of wealth.

A friend of mine wrote his dissertation on the idea that it was prostitution that tamed the west. In many towns it was the town madame that paid to have the first school or church built since she was usually one of the highest earners.

 

[dylans]

Less than 48 hours after the Connecticut school shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, CT, which took place on Dec. 14, the Westboro Baptist Church is already making plans to picket. The Westboro Baptist Church is known for picketing and protesting at funerals across the country.
“Westboro will picket Sandy Hook Elementary School to sing praise to God for the glory of his work in executing his judgment,” Shirley Phelps-Ropertweeted on Dec. 15.
“