The American mass shooting thread

[Tanya1982]

I would have no problem with everyone vaguely connected being treated as a clear and present danger, until conclusively proven otherwise. If that involves a rough search with someone shouting orders in your face, after being grabbed and positioned like a rag doll, so be it. I'd be understanding if it was done to me in that kind of situation.

It's just totally numbing that this happens again and again in America. The rest of the world can send sympathy, and does, time after time, but if Americans won't come together in enough numbers to actually do something about this, there's just not very much anyone else can ever say. It's only variations on the same theme, every few days.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

End capitalism

By voting for capitalist parties like Labour or the Democrats? What do you propose?

 

[NoXion]

Fucking hell

 

[Pickman's model]

I would have no problem with everyone vaguely connected being treated as a clear and present danger, until conclusively proven otherwise. If that involves a rough search with someone shouting orders in your face, after being grabbed and positioned like a rag doll, so be it. I'd be understanding if it was done to me in that kind of situation.

It's just totally numbing that this happens again and again in America. The rest of the world can send sympathy, and does, time after time, but if Americans won't come together in enough numbers to actually do something about this, there's just not very much anyone else can ever say. It's only variations on the same theme, every few days.

Everyone vaguely connected might easily be everyone at the scene. Including the wounded, many of who might not benefit from a rough search and being thrown about like a rag doll. I wonder how understanding you'd really be if you're bleeding and wanting medical attention while being roughly searched with your face on the ground

 

[Tanya1982]

By voting for capitalist parties like Labour or the Democrats? What do you propose?

I propose taking this to a more appropriate discussion.

 

[Yossarian]

From the NYT: Officers rushing into the chaotic scene had spotted a blood-spattered man with a handgun, not knowing if he was a threat.

Fierro, like the gunman, is a big guy, which might have added to the confusion - he's around 300 pounds, according to news reports, but still smaller than the shooter.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

I propose taking this to a more appropriate discussion.

I wasn't asking you

 

[Tanya1982]

I wasn't asking you

I know, you were just butting into a conversation about mass shooting. It was really off.

 

[petee]

By voting for capitalist parties like Labour or the Democrats? What do you propose?

jfc, like we don;t see through your ruse.

 

[Tanya1982]

From the NYT: Officers rushing into the chaotic scene had spotted a blood-spattered man with a handgun, not knowing if he was a threat.

Fierro, like the gunman, is a big guy, which might have added to the confusion - he's around 300 pounds, according to news reports, but still smaller than the shooter.

Thank god for him that the police weren't as trigger happy as they can sometimes be.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

I know, you were just butting into a conversation about mass shooting. It was really off.

I asked a simple, straight forward question about a statement/demand he posted and he is clearly unable to answer. And he's asked me the same out of context question many a time on plenty of other threads before, and no one gave a shit.

In any case these 'forums' hardly have any regular posters on them and don't actually matter that much, they're not as important as you think they are.

 

[NoXion]

I asked a simple, straight forward question about a statement he posted and he is clearly unable to answer.

This is not the thread in which to ride your idiotic little hobby horse.

 

[petee]

I asked a simple, straight forward question about a statement he posted and he is clearly unable to answer.

certainly not responding within 54 minutes is a sign of defeat.

 

[8ball]

certainly not responding within 54 minutes is a sign of defeat.

That’s enough time for two power naps.

 

[Karl Masks]

We can but hope that, by then, Musk won't have any billions to throw.

That's the dream! The violent expropriation of his wealth

 

[Karl Masks]

Makes sense. The person who told me it was all fluffy is on servers dedicated to fans of particular videogames / modders and suchlike.

It's ostensibly a platform for people to chat in games. But it's broadened to cover a wealth of subjects as anyone can create a server. Functionally it's quite good, and of course not all servers are scummy. As with social media in general it seems domianted by awful people who get away with saying awful things and the normalisation I spoke of really troubles me. Of course if you point this out, well you can imagine the response.

 

[Karl Masks]

He wishes he was a frat boy! I doubt he was ever invited to join the boys - that's his issue. He seems to me to be a glaring example of one of the great dangers of bullying - the bully grows up as a cunt with no love for anyone. He certainly is a definitive manbaby. One of his favourite lines seems to be that feminists are ugly, which I think translates to 'none of the popular girls would fuck me - they did everything they wanted to, but never me, boohoo'.

It may be projection. I've heard that his old man, who iirc is the show's producer, is a bit of a dick as well. Not a surprise if true, sadly.

I watched one of his videos where he burst into a rape crisis centre wearing a tutu, and told the people he found there that they probably hadn't been raped but had merely misunderstood the primal need that men have to have rough sex with the kind of women they don't marry. Basically, they were sluts, and it wouldn't have happened if they'd worn their chastity pledge rings (he was a virgin until marriage, as was his wife - I learned that in another video).

I'm glad that is one example of his horrific behaviour I have not seen. But there is a very entertaining clip of him being completely owned by a black street artist. He ends up threatening to call the cops on the guy even though (and pointed out by a community worker on hand) it's perfectly legal. He's just a scumbag and a bully who can't take it when he's the victim.

He seems fond of his 'not gay' tee shirt. I think it's interesting that he always has some little twerp parked in the corner, his studio gimp, laughing manically at his endless stream of cruelty. He seems to get these guests on, where he speaks over them at a hundred miles an hour, he has no interest in their perspective or agreeing any common ground. He's well known enough by now that you'd think most appearance requests by him would be rejected.

He is without a single redeeming quality. I'm no shrinking violet but I'd feel quite unsafe if I was in his company or found myself alone in a street with him, or was at all unfortunate enough to find myself anywhere within his purview. There is something hideously compelling about his performance (hence my knowledge of him), kind of like driving past a car crash on the opposite carriageway. It's appalling. You know it'll stay with you, but you can't not.

I can see that a twisted mind, watching him straight up, could quickly run into difficulty. See also, Dan Wootton.

There are thousands of these fuckers, preying on misfits and the mentally ill. Whether they believe the stuff they are saying is the only real questio - in Crowders case, he's a true believer. A fucking gargoyle.

He's among the worst IMO. Alex Jones is just a crazy survivalist. But Crowder targets young men and specifically contributes to the toxicity of macho culture and incels.

He's also a massive coward who refuses to debate Sam Seder endlessly. Another reactionary hypocrit

 

[Ax^]

In any case these 'forums' hardly have any regular posters on them and don't actually matter that much, they're not as important as you think they are.

 

[Tanya1982]

Tbh, I didn't really understand the post, what 'regular' is meant to be, what I did to make anyone assume I attach undue importance to these irregular few, or what any of this has to do with American gun violence.

 

[Ax^]

this a thread about reacting to American Mass shootings, so i don't understand the original comment quoted to be honest


more guns is always the answer


plus the other party has shite posted more than one thread on here

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Seems hard to say without more detail. Perpetrator at that point is likely lying in a pool of blood just like a lot of the victims, and one of the few people in the room who is upright is screaming military lingo including that the scene is clear and the shooter is down. Can imagine that a shooter might have tried that one in the past.

I'm sure it's pretty chaotic and it can be difficult to know if someone is the shooter or a bystander. One of the things that first responders are trained for is to expect that sometimes the shooter will have something planned for when they arrive. If you look at terrorist bombings around the world, there's often a first blast that draws first responders, and then a second blast timed for when they get on site. They tend to be on edge in the regular situations, I'm sure this kind of event would be multiplied.

 

[Tanya1982]

I'm sure it's pretty chaotic and it can be difficult to know if someone is the shooter or a bystander. One of the things that first responders are trained for is to expect that sometimes the shooter will have something planned for when they arrive. If you look at terrorist bombings around the world, there's often a first blast that draws first responders, and then a second blast timed for when they get on site. They tend to be on edge in the regular situations, I'm sure this kind of event would be multiplied.

Yes. I'm no apologist for the filth, but in these circumstances I'd give them a pass for treating everyone as a potential threat until it's established beyond all doubt that they aren't.

 

[8ball]

Yes. I'm no apologist for the filth, but in these circumstances I'd give them a pass for treating everyone as a potential threat until it's established beyond all doubt that they aren't.

There’s some kind of right way to strike it, but I totally understand that if you have an uninjured party, possibly with a gun in his hand AND partly matching the description of the shooter (which is often not going to be super-precise), then you have to treat them as a credible threat.

 

[Tanya1982]

this a thread about reacting to American Mass shootings, so i don't understand the original comment quoted to be honest


more guns is always the answer


plus the other party has shite posted more than one thread on here

It seems to be the 'go to' over there.

Personally, the only thing more terrifying than encountering an active shooter in a darkened nightclub or theatre or similar, is the prospect of multiple hobby shooters from every direction suddenly kicking off in response to the first, not knowing who was who, where to go, who to trust. Almost the dictionary definition of the right hand not knowing what the left was doing/trying to achieve. A recipe for a fucking bloodbath. And the lights are probably still not up.

The people who suggest these things have probably seen too many old westerns, showing bar fights concluding Hollywood style with the bad guys hanging high. They should be roundly ignored rather than elected as policy makers and legislators.

 

[Ax^]

the amount of guns is still the reason so more cannie hurt

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

It seems to be the 'go to' over there.

Personally, the only thing more terrifying than encountering an active shooter in a darkened nightclub or theatre or similar, is the prospect of multiple hobby shooters from every direction suddenly kicking off in response to the first, not knowing who was who, where to go, who to trust. Almost the dictionary definition of the right hand not knowing what the left was doing/trying to achieve. A recipe for a fucking bloodbath. And the lights are probably still not up.

The people who suggest these things have probably seen too many old westerns, showing bar fights concluding Hollywood style with the bad guys hanging high. They should be roundly ignored rather than elected as policy makers and legislators.

As long as we have so many guns in society, and everyone is potentially armed, then we'll have to accept that the cops are going to be twitchy.

 

[Tanya1982]

As long as we have so many guns in society, and everyone is potentially armed, then we'll have to accept that the cops are going to be twitchy.

Yes, that seems like a fair observation. Along with all the very pertinent critiques of militarized policing, especially of certain communities, the fact is that if you have a population armed to the teeth with assault weaponry, law enforcement will be likewise. There's lots of responsibility to be shared round on this situation, unfortunately.

I don't think I'd feel comfortable sending my son to school in the United States. Statistically, I know he'd likely graduate like millions of others. The chance that he wouldn't - so much higher than anywhere else - would have me on double dose tranquilizers. The very idea of teachers being armed should be seen as ludicrous to everyone.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

es, that seems like a fair observation. Along with all the very pertinent critiques of militarized policing, especially of certain communities, the fact is that if you have a population armed to the teeth with assault weaponry, law enforcement will be likewise. There's lots of responsibility to be shared round on this situation, unfortunately.

I don't think I'd feel comfortable sending my son to school in the United States. Statistically, I know he'd likely graduate like millions of others. The chance that he wouldn't - so much higher than anywhere else - would have me on double dose tranquilizers. The very idea of teachers being armed should be seen as ludicrous to everyone.

Where I live the murder rate is 4 per 100,000 people. Low by American standards. Half of that occurs in a very poor neighborhood in Omaha with bad schools, substandard housing, older housing stock with lead paint, high unemployment, food insecurity, deaths from despair, etc. I'm pretty sure we could lower the murder rate simply by more equitable distribution of wealth and putting some resources toward those issues early in life, even before limiting gun ownership.

 

[Tanya1982]

We've had events here in pubs - bombings and have you. I grew up near the Admiral Duncan (far right terrorist), and went out in Soho for years, and the West End more widely. Of all the things that fleetingly go through your mind - is my bag zipped up, where's the fire exit, if that weirdo follows me to another floor I'm leaving, even the odd moment of 'that rucksack seems to have been left behind, it could contain something horrific' etc, at least the thought of this isn't on the radar. Some loser, bursting in with assault weapons he legally bought, looking to take life and bring sheer terror to people doing nothing more than having fun.

It seems trite to say it should be illegal - and it is, after the fact. And then it happens later in the week somewhere else. And the next week. And in another school later that week, and then a synagogue on the Friday, and a church on the Sunday by yet another white supremacist, then in a workplace on the Monday morning by an aggrieved ex employee, and then later in a supermarket where people are just shopping for groceries, and then another nightclub, and on and on it goes. Plus litany of annual suicides that could've been stopped if the immediacy of a gun in the house wasn't right there in someone's darkest moments. It's just so fucked up.

When Iraq was at its most unstable, there were so many reports of mass deaths that, shamefully, they began to fade into one neverending parade of death. I'm sorry to say, the reports of American mass shootings are at that kind of point - it's just neverending parade of death. Different venue, different day, same tragic waste of life, same calls for more guns even including serious discussions about the need for armed kindergarten teachers.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

It's just so fucked up.

Yes, it is. More so that we refuse to do anything about it.