The 2019 General Election

[Don Troooomp]

I think there's a number of factors at play in the collapse into Labour:

The weakness of the extra-parliamentary left.

Labour putting forward what is ostensibly the most Left-wing platform in most of our living memories.

Few people want far left policies so Labour put forward nationalization and other far left policies. Add the leader is a pointless wanker that makes Johnson look like a better choice (That's pretty hard to do), and you have what is very possibly going to be an absolute smashing at the polls. It's too late for this election and prolly Brexit, but the whole party needs a big shakeup before the next one.
I'm going to get hammered by the far left for this post, but that's because they're too fucking stupid to realise a mildly left but electable Labour party that will take care of the NHS and the rest of the welfare state is far better than years of tory shit.

I await being told I'm a wanker for wanting an Electable Labour party that'll stop the tories fucking up the country.

 

[killer b]

Few people want far left policies so Labour put forward nationalization and other far left policies.

I mean... all the polling on nationalisation for key utilities, rail etc, for years and years on end directly contradicts your claim here.

 

[danny la rouge]

nationalization and other far left policies

This is why nobody takes you seriously. Nationalisation is “far left”. FFS.

 

[butchersapron]

Few people want far left policies so Labour put forward nationalization and other far left policies. Add the leader is a pointless wanker that makes Johnson look like a better choice (That's pretty hard to do), and you have what is very possibly going to be an absolute smashing at the polls. It's too late for this election and prolly Brexit, but the whole party needs a big shakeup before the next one.
I'm going to get hammered by the far left for this post, but that's because they're too fucking stupid to realise a mildly left but electable Labour party that will take care of the NHS and the rest of the welfare state is far better than years of tory shit.

I await being told I'm a wanker for wanting an Electable Labour party that'll stop the tories fucking up the country.

The people that you so naively rail at actually saved the labour party from the utter destruction you and people like you were wreaking on it. I have no doubt that you and people like you will never give up until they are destroyed for doing so - and you will then put in place the original destruction that they managed to prevent.

 

[Pickman's model]

Few people want far left policies so Labour put forward nationalization and other far left policies. Add the leader is a pointless wanker that makes Johnson look like a better choice (That's pretty hard to do), and you have what is very possibly going to be an absolute smashing at the polls. It's too late for this election and prolly Brexit, but the whole party needs a big shakeup before the next one.
I'm going to get hammered by the far left for this post, but that's because they're too fucking stupid to realise a mildly left but electable Labour party that will take care of the NHS and the rest of the welfare state is far better than years of tory shit.

I await being told I'm a wanker for wanting an Electable Labour party that'll stop the tories fucking up the country.

you're a wanker in part because you lie about other people

 

[Serge Forward]

Almost without exception all the 'anarchists' I know are not only voting for Labour, but are very, very excited about them and many of them are out canvassing for them too.

Piss poor anarchists.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm going to get hammered by the far left for this post, but that's because they're too fucking stupid to realise a mildly left but electable Labour party that will take care of the NHS and the rest of the welfare state is far better than years of tory shit.

you don't remember neil kinnock, do you? or gordon brown?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Few people want far left policies so Labour put forward nationalization and other far left policies. Add the leader is a pointless wanker that makes Johnson look like a better choice (That's pretty hard to do), and you have what is very possibly going to be an absolute smashing at the polls. It's too late for this election and prolly Brexit, but the whole party needs a big shakeup before the next one.
I'm going to get hammered by the far left for this post, but that's because they're too fucking stupid to realise a mildly left but electable Labour party that will take care of the NHS and the rest of the welfare state is far better than years of tory shit.

I await being told I'm a wanker for wanting an Electable Labour party that'll stop the tories fucking up the country.

It isn't the far left that is hammering your posts, it's everyone.

 

[ska invita]

Anarchists for Corbyn is not a contradictory position... It's a strategic and realpolitik one. Have recently heard the case made made in different ways by Erik Wright and Chomsky though intellectuals aside it's pretty obvious as to why

-people want to end 50 straight years of neoliberalist government in the UK, and aren't exactly looking forward to the impact of a Boris Brexit and the rest of the Tory program

-they want to improve their own lot and that of the rest of the working class

-they recognise that their own political ideals have a better chance of coming to be realised or enabled under a society shaped by a Corbyn government than a Tory one.

- they recognise the limits of an anarchist movement, barely able to put on a bookfair without tearing chunks off one another, never mind anything else

-the Labour party is changing at grassroots level, and that change is coming from below. There's potential to extend bottom up power both in that party and within the state if that influence can be extended. Anarchist ideas have a big role to play within that, and to a lesser extent already have over the last I don't know twenty years in widely extending the logic of horizontalism in heirchical socialist organisations

Etc etc etc

 

[Pickman's model]

Piss poor anarchists.

tbh it's a position i have some sympathy with, because for a change the alternatives are make things a bit worse (corbyn) or make them very much worse (johnson).

 

[SpookyFrank]

tbh it's a position i have some sympathy with, because for a change the alternatives are make things a bit worse (corbyn) or make them very much worse (johnson).

The alternative is wanting option two to happen because you think that deepening national misery will somehow hurry along the violent revolution.

 

[danny la rouge]

tbh it's a position i have some sympathy with, because for a change the alternatives are make things a bit worse (corbyn) or make them very much worse (johnson).

Sure. But there’s a difference between preferring Crohn’s disease to pancreatic cancer and actually campaigning for Crohn’s disease.

 

[Pickman's model]

Sure. But there’s a difference between preferring Crohn’s disease to pancreatic cancer and actually campaigning for Crohn’s disease.

let me be clear, i am not campaigning for nor will i vote for corbyn

 

[danny la rouge]

let me be clear, i am not campaigning for nor will i vote for corbyn

Fair comment. But I was replying to the general point.

 

[brogdale]

Sure. But there’s a difference between preferring Crohn’s disease to pancreatic cancer and actually campaigning for Crohn’s disease.

Though I believe that self-described anarchists should be free to do what they want regarding rep.dem....there's a troubling logic that, if they were to engage with the process, voting for the party pledged to remove one layer of (supra) state control might make most sense?

 

[krtek a houby]

Few people want far left policies so Labour put forward nationalization and other far left policies. Add the leader is a pointless wanker that makes Johnson look like a better choice (That's pretty hard to do), and you have what is very possibly going to be an absolute smashing at the polls. It's too late for this election and prolly Brexit, but the whole party needs a big shakeup before the next one.
I'm going to get hammered by the far left for this post, but that's because they're too fucking stupid to realise a mildly left but electable Labour party that will take care of the NHS and the rest of the welfare state is far better than years of tory shit.

I await being told I'm a wanker for wanting an Electable Labour party that'll stop the tories fucking up the country.

Just be honest and admit you're a libdem shill

 

[danny la rouge]

Though I believe that self-described anarchists should be free to do what they want regarding rep.dem....there's a troubling logic that, if they were to engage with the process, voting for the party pledged to remove one layer of (supra) state control might make most sense?

I’m not seeking to prescribe anything on behalf of anarchists. Voting for or campaigning for parliamentary parties. But personally I’ll be doing the former but can’t see the circumstances in which I’d do the latter.

 

[Libertad]

I await being told I'm a wanker

You're a wanker. Feel better now?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Yeah. I've almost, almost, been tempted myself

(I haven't, and I won't, but...)

It's definitely "a thing". Even more than 2017.

It's a weird one isn't it, I feel the pull, even though there are many parts of corbyn's politics that I don't like and I think labour are basically cunts, although I would rather have any labour govt than a tory one and I would rather have a Corbyn/labour left govt than any other labour govt. Won't join or canvass though obv.

I think the dynamic of painting corbyn/labour lefts politics as dangerous, not mostly for the parts that are toxic like the shitty anti imperialism or the wet stuff like being err labour, but for the stuff that we would all welcome like addressing housing inequality, wealth inequality etc, drives it, that's what creates the siege mentality and the pull, but that causes problems - there are people I know now heavily into labour and turning a blind eye to stuff that I know they wouldn't have a few years ago. Funny times.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Few people want far left policies so Labour put forward nationalization and other far left policies. Add the leader is a pointless wanker that makes Johnson look like a better choice (That's pretty hard to do), and you have what is very possibly going to be an absolute smashing at the polls. It's too late for this election and prolly Brexit, but the whole party needs a big shakeup before the next one.
I'm going to get hammered by the far left for this post, but that's because they're too fucking stupid to realise a mildly left but electable Labour party that will take care of the NHS and the rest of the welfare state is far better than years of tory shit.

I await being told I'm a wanker for wanting an Electable Labour party that'll stop the tories fucking up the country.

Case in point. Makes me want to knock doors with a load of middle class wankers I can't stand.

 

[YouSir]

It's a weird one isn't it, I feel the pull, even though there are many parts of corbyn's politics that I don't like and I think labour are basically cunts, although I would rather have any labour govt than a tory one and I would rather have a Corbyn/labour left govt than any other labour govt. Won't join or canvass though obv.

I think the dynamic of painting corbyn/labour lefts politics as dangerous, not mostly for the parts that are toxic like the shitty anti imperialism or the wet stuff like being err labour, but for the stuff that we would all welcome like addressing housing inequality, wealth inequality etc, drives it, that's what creates the siege mentality and the pull, but that causes problems - there are people I know now heavily into labour and turning a blind eye to stuff that I know they wouldn't have a few years ago. Funny times.

On a purely bullshit, speculation point - I think fear and a lack of agency play a big part for some. Generationally especially. Don't recall any time in my (adult) life where there even was hope for an alternative of any sort, not even the sort of soft, half-hearted effort Corbyn offers. People a generation up from mine seem to have a lot more lived memory of struggles where there was some hope though, or at least a sense that there was a fight to be had - Miner's Strike, Poll Tax Riots etc.

Makes something like a slight leftward shift from Labour feel a lot more profound than it really is and the possibility of losing completely with it a lot worse given how bad things have gotten.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Case in point. Makes me want to knock doors with a load of middle class wankers I can't stand.

It really is awful I had to shower six times afterwards and listen to 'Cocaine Socialism' on repeat.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Though I believe that self-described anarchists should be free to do what they want regarding rep.dem....there's a troubling logic that, if they were to engage with the process, voting for the party pledged to remove one layer of (supra) state control might make most sense?

Well, to be fair Johnson's/May's version of Brexit will leave the supra state with plenty of control.

 

[Artaxerxes]

It’s not something I’d advocate. Voting is one thing, but actually joining an electoral party and canvassing. Nope.

Sign of a deranged mind. We should look into providing mental health support for sufferers.

 

[Artaxerxes]

This is why nobody takes you seriously. Nationalisation is “far left”. FFS.

I mean... all the polling on nationalisation for key utilities, rail etc, for years and years on end directly contradicts your claim here.

Tbf it usually is billed as far left, unless it's the conservatives doing it which is merely taking charge until a suitable buyer can be found and to ensure standards are maintained.

 

[killer b]

Tbf it usually is billed as far left,

so what. it's still a lie.

 

[killer b]

On a purely bullshit, speculation point - I think fear and a lack of agency play a big part for some. Generationally especially. Don't recall any time in my (adult) life where there even was hope for an alternative of any sort, not even the sort of soft, half-hearted effort Corbyn offers. People a generation up from mine seem to have a lot more lived memory of struggles where there was some hope though, or at least a sense that there was a fight to be had - Miner's Strike, Poll Tax Riots etc.

I've read some chat recently about how Generation X is much less represented in radical political campaigns than the generations either side: I think part of that is due to childcare and suchlike, but there's also got to be another aspect too - that Gen X came up through the eras of blair and TINA technocratic governance and there was no fight for them to join.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I've read some chat recently about how Generation X is much less represented in radical political campaigns than the generations either side: I think part of that is due to childcare and suchlike, but there's also got to be another aspect too - that Gen X came up through the eras of blair and TINA technocratic governance and there was no fight for them to join.

I'd definitely agree with that. It's really visible in trade unions - you've got your over 50's and your under 35's and in the middle, a big gap. I do wonder if childcare responsibilities also factor into this but it's definitely a thing. Thatcher's children.

 

[maomao]

I'm generation X and I'd be firebombing Downing St right now if it wasn't for the fucking kids.

 

[killer b]

(also worth noting that Gen X are the last generation to get their foot on the housing ladder before the ladder was pulled up)