The 2017 General Election campaign

[billy_bob]

One of the things that really frustrate me, that. Now I don't necessarily think this is a good thing (there is a time for govt to borrow and borrow hard), but I would guess that it is a thing that most people won't know – Labour govts borrow less than tory ones.

I agree. But it's another of those areas where sadly Labour hasn't been as good as the other side at defining the narrative and the parameters of what's talked about. The 'no return to boom and bust' thing worked for a brief period, until the next bust remarkably enough. But for at least 30 years they've generally been happy for 'look we can do economics good too just like the big boys in the Tory party' to be their response, rather than undermining the bullshit idea that the Tories are better at it in the first place.

 

[mikey mikey]

 

[mikey mikey]

I long for the day when we move on to some other shit phrase and fake news is in the dustbin.

 

[DotCommunist]

Personally I do give something of a fuck about the costings, but I agree that a lot of people make their political decisions more on gut instinct (I say this from experience of political campaigning - not trying to patronise anyone), so you're probably right that sentiment matters more in a lot of cases.

However, one of the sentiments that (regardless of accuracy) often hangs around Labour is the idea that they're good on lots of nice-to-have social touchy-feely stuff but rubbish with the bottom line. So if they do put out proposals that sound great but that they have trouble defending in hard-nosed financial terms, it's more damaging than just being a bit hazy about the finer details at this stage: too many people will feel it confirms that they can't look after the economy.

the cons get a totally unearned rep for economic competence as well, I swear its because they are all wealthy

 

[butchersapron]

 

[RainbowTown]

Oh, dear.

Don't know which is more hilariouzzzzz; the cliched contrivance of the picture itself or the smug smile of the 'look-at-me-oh-aren't-I-so-edgy' guy holding the now passe 'fake newzzzzz' placard.

 

[NoXion]

I hear a lot of talk from the media questioning the costings of the Labour manifesto. Yet I hardly ever hear that same media asking those questions of the Tories. In fact when was the last time that the Tories were asked a hard question concerning finances by a mainstream journalist? Like how despite all their rhetoric about decreasing the deficit (although the Tories seem to have gone a bit quiet about that recently), Tory policies as opposed to manifesto pledges actually increase it. Almost as if shit like that isn't as important as they make it out to be.

 

[billy_bob]

the cons get a totally unearned rep for economic competence as well, I swear its because they are all wealthy

Yes - maybe I should have put 'regardless of accuracy' in bold or something. I don't mean to buy into the untruth that the Tories manage the economy well and Labour don't, but it is a widely held view and Labour have to recognise this in the way they communicate, if they want to challenge it other than by just borrowing the Tories clothes.

e2a (in response to NoXion too): this is one of the problems with a more highminded approach to politics, which Corbyn seems to want to maintain (although I get the feeling McDonnell wouldn't mind being let off the lead now and then). So many aspects of the Tories' record even in the last two years, never mind through history, baldly contradict the narrative that they can be trusted with the finances and it's infuriating not to see them laid into about it more. If the beeb and the Guardian obviously aren't going to do it, I don't know who else Labour think they can leave it to.

 

[treelover]

All the questions for Labour in interviews now are "what is the exact details of how much this manifesto will cost and how exactly will you pay for it?"

I don't really give a fuck about that. It's the sentiment I care about and I suspect most people care about?

yes, they are putting down markers, especially if there is another leadership battle post election, people i have spoken to love the manifesto, it has also broken a 30 year hegemony of ideas, etc.

 

[DotCommunist]

after miliband you had chukka and co lining up to apologise for trying to win an election from the left (hollow laugh). When they lose this election it will be used to bury the labour left once and for all if they can.

 

[mikey mikey]

 

[bimble]

 

[poului]

Any credibility in my fleeting thought that this different coverage of Corbyn by the mainstream media in recent days might be because they don't wish for such a big Tory landslide win, in the vain hope it might result in a more compromised Brexit deal? Or am I just going a bit InfoWars with that?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

'the better-off'

Fuck me, it's a tiny proposal to take a tiny bit more from the rich. Wankers.

 

[NoXion]

View attachment 106816

Hysterical shit. I bet if an actual communist was in with a chance those twats would have a heart attack.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Any credibility in my fleeting thought that this different coverage of Corbyn by the mainstream media in recent days might be because they don't wish for such a big Tory landslide win, in the vain hope it might result in a more compromised Brexit deal? Or am I just going a bit InfoWars with that?

There's no different coverage. Look at the bbc reaction above.

 

[co-op]

Any credibility in my fleeting thought that this different coverage of Corbyn by the mainstream media in recent days might be because they don't wish for such a big Tory landslide win, in the vain hope it might result in a more compromised Brexit deal? Or am I just going a bit InfoWars with that?

Think it's because they think the more they focus on Corbyn the bigger the tory landslide will be. They're moving the coverage away from the policies as they are popular

 

[Idris2002]

Think it's because they think the more they focus on Corbyn the bigger the tory landslide will be. They're moving the coverage away from the policies as they are popular

Or because they've forgotten, or never knew, how to actually talk about policies.

 

[bimble]

remember George Osborne is now the editor of evening standard.

 

[co-op]

Or because they've forgotten, or never knew, how to actually talk about policies.

Well yes that too of course

 

[Idris2002]

remember George Osborne is now the editor of evening standard.

Yes. He "edits" the Evening Standard. That must be it. Editing. Yes.

 

[Sprocket.]

I have (in the past) been led to believe that borrowing for building infrastructure whilst interest rates were low is classed as sound economics?

 

[DotCommunist]

Hysterical shit. I bet if an actual communist was in with a chance those twats would have a heart attack.

tories are going to win anyway, they're just hammering it in now- anything that is even slightly soc/dec must be crushed.

I have (in the past) been led to believe that borrowing for building infrastructure whilst interest rates were low is classed as sound economics?

that was before. Now the economy is just like mrs beetons home economics and just the same as running a household budget. Nations credit card remember.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I have (in the past) been led to believe that borrowing for building infrastructure whilst interest rates were low is classed as sound economics?

Particularly when the private sector is reluctant to borrow...

Plus of course governments can borrow at lower rates than anybody else. They have a built-in competitive advantage.

 

[treelover]

Im on channel 503 BBC News channel Sky A BBC presenter I've been recording the speech and BBC response to JC Manifesto launch. Ben Brown just announced the News following the manifesto speech and apart from the dismissive reporting and the usual BBC bias spin in response. Corby disliked unpopular blar blar rhetoric Ben Brown turned for more derisory comments to Norman Smith. Asking for his take on the response from the public. A women stepped forward to say she thought it was great and was Ben Ben cupped his hand over her breast and pushed her away whilst his hand was still firmly attached!! Seriously!!! And then continued speaking to Norman Smith! Disgusting! A sacking for sure I truely hope theirs lawyers watching and she comes forward!!

from Guardian CIF, anyone see this?

 

[Plumdaff]

Particularly when the private sector is reluctant to borrow...

Plus of course governments can borrow at lower rates than anybody else. They have a built-in competitive advantage.

One of the most frustrating things about our content free public discourse is how shite at capitalism Tory and wider received opinion is.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

One of the most frustrating things about our content free public discourse is how shite at capitalism Tory and wider received opinion is.

Yep. One of those frustrations comes with talk of the national debt (ie public debt) with no reference at all to levels of private debt. It's meaningless.

 

[RainbowTown]

Chukka, the MiliBLAND brothers and Tony Bliar (a guy who arguably should be serving time for war crimes) are probably plotting right now for the coup d'etat of the Labour party, if/when they loss the election. Make no mistake, if you thought Labour has been in disarray these part few years, you ain't seen nothing yet. It's all going to get far, far more grubbier if they lose this election. And, worse still, this will be absolute music to the cackling ears of the loathsome Tories. Tally-ho!

Enjoy the time, folks, because it's going to be a bumpy ride. Just try and make sure you stay on as long as possible.

 

[killer b]

Economist's headline on the manifesto is a beaut, regardless of where you stand on it's content...

 

[killer b]

the MiliBLAND brothers and Tony Bliar

my god.