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SWP expulsions and squabbles

The39thStep said:
Faction normally implies some form of collaboration and cohesion amongst a minority. Aside from this chap where are the other members of this faction?
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There isn't a faction within the RMT that feels Steve Hedley has a case to answer to my knowledge. I assumed there was, but having looked for evidence of that, couldn't find any. I was wrong. I apologise.
 
co-op said:
They're clearly very different things (verbals vs - e.g.- punching) but they are (depending on context) both perfectly capable of being acts of "violence". One of the many ironies of the the position apparently taken by Sisters Uncut (i.e. that any act of physical violence against a woman by a man is some kind of whole-new-level-of-taboo and that any man who has done this must be outcast - ?for ever?) is that emotionally and psychologically violent men are often the most dangerous to women in terms of long term outcomes & physical violence is not necessarily a marker for this - weird controlling men who end up killing women are very rarely directly violent until they "lose" the woman.

But I can understand the reluctance of a simplified "ultra-feminist" position in looking too closely at this because once you allow complexities like "emotional violence" or "psychological violence" into the debate then of course women are perfectly capable of inflicting this as easily as men (maybe more easily?) and that makes things complex (which I think this topic is).

For the any left perspective in general surely an essential part of that is seeing that "violence" is often structural and invisible? Reducing it to punching etc is essentially conservative I think.
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There's nothing there I'd disagree with. However that's not the context my criticism was raised in. Allegedly shouting (there's so much accusation and counter accusation at this stage I don't know whether up is down any more!) in an aggressive manner, while unacceptable, is different from a sustained campaign of emotional and psychological abuse. Just as allegedly taking a swing at someone is.

I suppose what I'm driving at is this tactic that tries to anathemise dissenting voices by accusing them of 'violence' when all their really doing is putting across their disagreement in a heated way. For me the best way of dealing with that kind of thing is just a strong word from someone asking them to calm it down rather than accusing them of being some sort of nutter that's a danger to people in the area.
 
J Ed said:
It's not like she will do any worse or any better in this election than all the others she has lost deposits in.
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she'll do worse. Vote tumbled last time, cant see it getting any better. She would have saved a few deposits in the council l#elections she's stood in (only been one general, where she did appallingly)
 
belboid said:
she'll do worse. Vote tumbled last time, cant see it getting any better. She would have saved a few deposits in the council l#elections she's stood in (only been one general, where she did appallingly)
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She stood in Hillsborough in 2010 for TUSC and Central in 2005 for Respect, would have lost deposits in both according to wiki
 
J Ed said:
She stood in Hillsborough in 2010 for TUSC and Central in 2005 for Respect, would have lost deposits in both according to wiki
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I'd forgotten all about Central! Tbf (thru gritted teeth), she did pretty well there, nearly kept the deposit.
 
leyton96 said:
There's nothing there I'd disagree with. However that's not the context my criticism was raised in. Allegedly shouting (there's so much accusation and counter accusation at this stage I don't know whether up is down any more!) in an aggressive manner, while unacceptable, is different from a sustained campaign of emotional and psychological abuse. Just as allegedly taking a swing at someone is.

I suppose what I'm driving at is this tactic that tries to anathemise dissenting voices by accusing them of 'violence' when all their really doing is putting across their disagreement in a heated way. For me the best way of dealing with that kind of thing is just a strong word from someone asking them to calm it down rather than accusing them of being some sort of nutter that's a danger to people in the area.
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I see what you're saying, in a way I was trying to open up the deadly taboos surrounding violence within intimate partnerships and make a similar point in that context (whereas the context you are discussing is more of the shouty public political argument) - it's a hard thing to do without sounding like I'm trying to justify violence or make a literal equivalence between different kinds of violence, but there are very complex areas here I think. One persons "aggressive manner" is another persons "normal" - so who should change? Is there some kind of objective measure? (obviously not I guess anyone can see?).

My point is that within intimate relationships violence is a really complex issue and (and within the whole domestic sphere) when it's boiled down to some simplistic formula about "confronting abusers" and then defining as an abuser any (man? or person?) who has ever had a fight with a woman, that is problematic to me. And one of the reasons for that is that violence takes many forms and defining it is highly context dependent.
 
belboid said:
ISN now officially defunct, apparently
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There's still the 'youth' summer camp that both RS21 & ISN members ex and hangers on have been invited to by another 'post' Trotskyist organisation in Belgium.
You never know; 'Phoenix From The Flames' & all that !
 
gamerunknown said:
Not an LBR member, but he'd been expelled by that point for unrelated reasons (along with most members afaik). His conviction was given as a retrospective justification once it was discovered.
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Been away for a while so didn't see this comment (29 March) on the LBR/Kenny kerfuffle.

Not seeking to re-open that particular discussion, just want to check if you're really saying that most members of LBR were expelled late last year.
 
Karmickameleon said:
From Dave Renton on Facebook:
​
Yesterday I was send an unpleasant and harassing message...

10553476_10152617933946269_6601857286497148820_n.jpg
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Strange one this. I can't trace the image file. Also, I thought Dave Renton had closed down his Facebook account last year and his blog last month.
 
Fozzie Bear said:
The left is pretty unified in its distaste for the SWP, so they have achieved something.
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I wasn't there, but -from what I am told- the SWP set up a stall outside the RS21 event at the Friends' Meeting House in Euston today. Changing times or part of the "unity offensive or both?
 
I was there. Three were on the stall and two came in to the event. I spoke to one outside and it is an interesting dilemma. One the one hand *@!@$£! but on the other they are still a part of the UK left. I'm sure I'm not the only one to face this. They were there handing out Marxism leaflets really - not pushing anything about unity. rs21 members aren't exactly jumping at the thought of swp links as you can imagine.

The event itself was great with 200 odd present and a wide range of people. Quite young and a good women to men ratio.
 
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Trotsky007 said:
I was there. Three were on the stall and two came in to the event. I spoke to one outside and it is an interesting dilemma. One the one hand *@!@$£! but on the other they are still a part of the UK left. I'm sure I'm not the only one to face this. They were there handing out Marxism leaflets really - not pushing anything about unity. rs21 members aren't exactly jumping at the thought of swp links as you can imagine.

The event itself was great with 200 odd present and a wide range of people. Quite young and a good women to men ratio.
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Go on, give us an anecdote about a factory worker you got chatting to...
 
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