Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

SWP expulsions and squabbles

I looked on the SWP website to see how they are getting on and where they will be holding Marxism this year with the student unions against them. Marxism will happen but no venues are mentioned excerpt for "Central London". I also noticed how expensive it is to join. I don't know if they have put up their prices but they are not affordable by ordinary working class people.
 
Hocus Eye. said:
I looked on the SWP website to see how they are getting on and where they will be holding Marxism this year with the student unions against them. Marxism will happen but no venues are mentioned excerpt for "Central London". I also noticed how expensive it is to join. I don't know if they have put up their prices but they are not affordable by ordinary working class people.
Click to expand...
I can't see a join option anywhere or details of subs. Am I missing it?
 
They are still 'branding' protests with their placards, even though the bulk of people on them have no interest in them and many a sharp antipathy.
 
treelover said:
They are still 'branding' protests with their placards, even though the bulk of people on them have no interest in them and many a sharp antipathy.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm sure they are. They've been doing it for so long - 40 years at least - that they'd find it a really difficult habit to break. You can't teach a flatulent old dog not to fart.
 
treelover said:
They are still 'branding' protests with their placards, even though the bulk of people on them have no interest in them and many a sharp antipathy.
Click to expand...

The thing is that branding is a good thing if you want to be seen and recognized. This is the case for coca cola or the swp. So handing out placards on a demo is great if you want to get to the very people who are your target audience (the annoyed/angry/rebellious section of society who care enough to get on the streets). I don't have a problem with that. There is no-one forcing anyone to carry a placard. If you hate the swp then don't carry it. If you want other placards to be carried then make them and hand them out.
The issue should really be - is the slogan on the placard a good one? If it captures the message you want to give then fine. "Kick the tories out" is a bad slogan IMO.

There is a problem for the swp with handing out placards and that is that it makes you look bigger/ more influential than you actually are. So the demo may look like it has lots of people who like you but in reality yours were the only placards/ or had the best slogans. I am sure this has been at least part of the problem for the swp in giving them delusions of grandeur.
 
Trotsky007 said:
The thing is that branding is a good thing if you want to be seen and recognized. This is the case for coca cola or the swp. So handing out placards on a demo is great if you want to get to the very people who are your target audience (the annoyed/angry/rebellious section of society who care enough to get on the streets). I don't have a problem with that. There is no-one forcing anyone to carry a placard. If you hate the swp then don't carry it. If you want other placards to be carried then make them and hand them out.
The issue should really be - is the slogan on the placard a good one? If it captures the message you want to give then fine. "Kick the tories out" is a bad slogan IMO.

There is a problem for the swp with handing out placards and that is that it makes you look bigger/ more influential than you actually are. So the demo may look like it has lots of people who like you but in reality yours were the only placards/ or had the best slogans. I am sure this has been at least part of the problem for the swp in giving them delusions of grandeur.
Click to expand...


Sounds suspiciously like 'let the market decide', which is interesting, as in many ways the SWP has indeed operated like a voracious corporation.
 
treelover said:
Sounds suspiciously like 'let the market decide', which is interesting, as in many ways the SWP has indeed operated like a voracious corporation.
Click to expand...
given that they don't charge for the placards, it isn't really a 'market', is it? It's individuals making their own, free, choice
 
belboid said:
given that they don't charge for the placards, it isn't really a 'market', is it? It's individuals making their own, free, choice
Click to expand...
Your post argues that it's not a market, it's free choice. Now, aside from you knowing this is hack bollocks, the market argument is based on the idea of free choice on the same basis as yours. It's a pro-market argument.
 
emanymton said:
I can't see a join option anywhere or details of subs. Am I missing it?
Click to expand...

I had to look for a long time too :D

Is £10 to £30 a month, depending on income. Which is less than it was? Used to be a percentage didn't it? Something like that, maybe got that totally wrong. If you earned a lot, I'm sure you were expected to pay more than £30 a month. But my memory is bad.
 
butchersapron said:
Your post argues that it's not a market, it's free choice. Now, aside from you knowing this is hack bollocks, the market argument is based on the idea of free choice on the same basis as yours. It's a pro-market argument.
Click to expand...
lol, what a crock of crap.

Markets rely on exchange, what is being exchanged here? No one makes anyone take a placard (or, at least, anyone other than a party member), they take them because they like the slogan. THE SWP's production of placards doesn't stop anyone else from doing so, so they're not really creating a monopoly position. It is true that there will be significant over-production, although that is unlikely to lead to the massive systemic failure.
 
belboid said:
lol, what a crock of crap.

Markets rely on exchange, what is being exchanged here? No one makes anyone take a placard (or, at least, anyone other than a party member), they take them because they like the slogan. THE SWP's production of placards doesn't stop anyone else from doing so, so they're not really creating a monopoly position. It is true that there will be significant over-production, although that is unlikely to lead to the massive systemic failure.
Click to expand...
Markets rely on far more than exchange - prior dispossession is key. So, map that onto this situation where political possession is marked by holding a placard, it's the SWP program down to a tee. It's pro-market logic at best. The consumer with their greater knowledge is sovereign. Free choice, listen to yourself.
 
Red Cat said:
I had to look for a long time too :D

Is £10 to £30 a month, depending on income. Which is less than it was? Used to be a percentage didn't it? Something like that, maybe got that totally wrong. If you earned a lot, I'm sure you were expected to pay more than £30 a month. But my memory is bad.
Click to expand...
If you multiply the amount you pay for a month to how much the same amount comes to for 12 months then it is a lot of money. This is much more than you will be paying for a full union subscription which all employed members will be doing hopefully. Put the two together and that is a lot of money out of your salary. It looks like a rich man's club to me.
 
butchersapron said:
Markets rely on far more than exchange - prior dispossession is key. So, map that onto this situation where political possession is marked by holding a placard, it's the SWP program down to a tee. It's pro-market logic at best. The consumer with their greater knowledge is sovereign. Free choice, listen to yourself.
Click to expand...
idiotic nonsense. There is no 'dispossession' involved, and you've made a classic logical error.

All birds have wings, this aeroplane has wings, therefore this aeroplane is a bird.
 
belboid said:
idiotic nonsense. There is no 'dispossession' involved, and you've made a classic logical error.

All birds have wings, this aeroplane has wings, therefore this aeroplane is a bird.
Click to expand...
Of course there is dispossession involved - oh hang on, no, there's massive record participation etc.

There is no logical error in identifying a key support of pro-market logic being used to buttress an ostensibly anti-market argument.
 
butchersapron said:
Of course there is dispossession involved - oh hang on, no, there's massive record participation etc.

There is no logical error in identifying a key support of pro-market logic being used to buttress an ostensibly anti-market argument.
Click to expand...
oh dear, pisspoor. Who has been dispossessed by the SWP producing a placard with a slogan on?

And you haven't shown you have identified anything, you've made an argument, but provided zip to back it up.
 
belboid said:
oh dear, pisspoor. Who has been dispossessed by the SWP producing a placard with a slogan on?

And you haven't shown you have identified anything, you've made an argument, but provided zip to back it up.
Click to expand...
Of course there has been a historic course of dispossession of politics by the state and capital - what an odd thing to deny.What next - the enclosures never happened?

I did. The idiocy of free choice. Your comrades have attacked this nonsense for 50+ years.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

ElizabethofYork
Men’s violence against women and girls is a national emergency
34 35 36 37 38
Replies
1K
Views
44K
The39thStep
The39thStep
Smokeandsteam
Facebook: Australia content ban, SWP removal and related news
2 3 4
Replies
115
Views
8K
NoXion
NoXion
S
Tory songs and bands
4 5 6 7 8
Replies
210
Views
10K
Wilf
Wilf
W
all these “So and so’s time is up” threads.
2 3
Replies
89
Views
4K
wow
W
J
To save the UK economy this is what Sunak and Hunt should be doing
Replies
18
Views
1K
bimble
bimble
Back
Top Bottom